What Parenting Taught Us

What happens when the parenting season you thought would never end suddenly does? 

Mandy sits down with her husband, Matt Majors, for an honest conversation about becoming empty nesters and the surprising grief that comes when the noise, interruptions, and everyday needs of raising kids disappear.

Looking back over more than two decades of parenting, Mandy and Matt talk candidly about career decisions, finances, marriage, sacrifice, and learning to put their family ahead of personal ambitions. Matt shares how fatherhood gradually shifted his purpose from living for himself to finding joy in serving others, while Mandy reflects on the hard conversations and Biblical priorities that helped create stability in their home.

For parents still in the exhausting years, this episode is an encouragement to keep going. The interruptions won't last forever, and the small choices you're making today to prioritize God, your marriage, and your kids can bear fruit long after they leave home.

Guest Bio:

Matt Majors is Mandy Majors' husband of 27 years and the father of their two young adult children, ages 22 and 19. Unlike Mandy, Matt's professional career has been in the secular business world, but his Christian faith and love of theology have deeply influenced the way he approaches marriage, fatherhood, and family priorities.

In this episode, Matt offers a dad's perspective on the transition into empty nesting and reflects on how more than two decades of parenting changed him. He shares honestly about sacrificing career opportunities and hobbies, learning to prioritize his wife and children, and discovering that some of the moments he once found exhausting are now the ones he misses most.

Resources:

- We Read the Comments on our Viral Parenting Post - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/we-read-the-comments-on-our-viral-parenting-post/

- Avoid Crazy-Parent Mode - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/avoid-crazy-parent-mode/

- Why Kids Stop Talking to their Parents: A Son's Honest Advice - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/why-kids-stop-talking-to-their-parents-a-sons-honest-advice/

- My 18-year-old Son’s Honest Take on My Parenting - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/18-year-old-son-honest-take-parenting/ 

- Marriage Talk: From Fighting to Talking w/Matt and Mandy Majors - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/marriage-talk-from-fighting-to-talking-w-matt-and-mandy-majors/

- 3 things NOT to do if you want to stay married. - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/three-things-not-to-do-if-you-want-to-stay-married/

- How do we talk to our kids about Money? - nextTalk: https://nexttalk.org/podcast_episode/how-do-we-talk-to-our-kids-about-money/

Connect with The nextTalk Parent Podcast:

Website:https://nextTalk.org/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nextTalk

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nextTalkorg/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nextTalkorg

Transcript

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The Day Parenting Ends

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I know a lot of dads that with young kids that are just like, man, is this ever gonna end? And the irony is now that it has ended for me, I miss it.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

I still got stuff wrong. I still had to apologize. Looking back, knowing that we gave it our all, it kind of does something about your faith and trust in Jesus in that surrendering yourself and it not being about you because you see the fruit of it.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

The moment your kids see you prioritizing the hobbies and the career and everything else, I can promise you you've just established their future. I had purpose before, but it the purpose was me. And now my purpose shifted to be others.

Meet Matt And The Empty Nest

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Welcome to the Next Talk Parent podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Majors. Together, as parents, we're learning how to navigate tech, culture, and faith with our kids. We share real stories and real hope as we fight to keep our kids safe in a digital world. Welcome back to the next talk parent podcast. Today I have my favorite person on the show. Other than Jesus, I had to have that disclaimer. My husband, Matt.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Was it really needed?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Matt's back on the show today. How are you doing, honey?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

For our new listeners who may have never listened to one of your shows before, just give us a brief overview of who you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Uh, my name is Matt. I've been married to Mandy for 27 years. Yes. I've gotten too fat. I can't take my ring off anymore. That's when our wedding date, we didn't think that through real well when we put our wedding date on the inside of the ring.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

That we were gonna, our bodies were gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

We've been married. Um, been happy for me. Hopefully, it's been happily married for you. Um, so yeah, my Matt.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

And we have two kids. Most people know that from listening to the show. They are now 22 and 19. And uh also Matt for his profession. I get asked this a lot. Like is he in ministry? Is he you're not?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

No, not not at all. No, I I um I'm not. I'm in a a very secular role and always have been.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

And business guy.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Business side of the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

But you do love theology. I don't know anyone who listens to more pastors than he does. His podcasts, the sermons. Every day I come in the house. We got some sort of sermon going on on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

I'm just I hate social media, but I tell you, the older and lazier I get, uh, YouTube is just something. I get hung it. The algorithm gets me, and then I go here and I go there.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

And and it's either a sermon or a financial thing. Those are your two.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

I guess so. Yeah, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Well, I wanted to bring Matt back on the show because we are adjusting to empty nesting.

Waves Of Grief And New Sensitivity

SPEAKER_00 3:06

We're starting the process.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yes. When the show airs, it's gonna be a little bit longer, but on recording date, it's been about three weeks. And it has been a process, I will say, more so than I realized.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Very unexpected for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Tell me about that. Tell me about how unexpected it was for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Oh wow. Uh well, you know, uh when we first had kids, uh honestly, life was nuts, and I never thought I would I just never envisioned getting to a point when they wouldn't be around and they wouldn't need me, and that when I would wake up, it I would put away my my day, whatever I wanted to do, and I would focus on their needs, and now they're not here, and so they don't need me anymore. And maybe That's not true. I know, I know. They still needed to need me to pay tuition and they need they need help with cars. Yeah, yeah, and they're setting up broth I rays and all the great stuff. I know, it's just it's just different. It's just uh honestly, 22 years ago, I just hadn't envisioned kind of this moment, and I spent kind of maybe uh twenty-two years evolving, changing to get to a point that I never thought I would actually get to, and we're here.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah. It's it surprised me in how you have had a harder time with it than I have.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Of recently, yeah in the past month.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, I the first week for me was not that hard, to be quite honest. And I think it was because we were exhausted from the moving and getting the preparation. Yeah. And it kind of just felt like he was with friends for a week somewhere. But weeks two and three were really tough for me. Like the gut punch of that season of parenting is over for us. Like there's been a definite wave of emotions that have hit because of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Yeah, I don't really, I'm not a big fan of emotions. Um, I just want it, you know, just yes, no, black and white.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

You're a very logical person.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, and you know what's so crazy is uh I, you know, I used to be so much worse. Um and and I'm getting older, I'll be 50 soon. And man, I feel so much now. It's so weird, like I don't like it. Uh but this, the feelings that I've had with, you know, the being empty nesters is uh it's just such a weird, weird feeling. Uh every day it's getting a little bit better for me, especially, you know, we've just did a lot of hard work with our our each other individually, each other and with our kids over the past two decades. Uh and now I I we have such really fantastic relationships with our kids that it actually is helping me, I think, to uh get over this uh stage or this season of life because uh you know there's just there's a respect between us and our kids, and they know we're struggling, and they reach out to us. How are you doing? What's going on? I mean, these are our kids caring uh young adult kids that are caring about caring, like they think about us. And um, you know, I don't know that I ever did that with my parents when I was 19 and 22 years old. I don't know, it's just it's a it's a new world.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Well, and that's been a balance too of being honest with them about our struggles, but also not wanting to burden them. Like, right? We want them to go live their lives, we don't want them to be sad for us. And so finding that balance too of communicating our struggle without overburdening them has been a whole process as well. But you know, you and I have talked about you've become more sensitive for sure, which I love. I know you don't like, but I've left that.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

It is so bad. But like I I like watching birds now. I've texted my mom about birds. Like birds, I have bird feeders now. This is awful. What I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

You will text the the group chat about the neighborhood squirrel that you've identified.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

They've got we've got they've got different names based on their body types. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

This is where we are in life.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

This is I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

I actually think it's a sweet season. And anytime I get, you know, weeks two and three when I struggled, anytime when I did get super sad that this parenting season have has ended, I did go back to what you just said in the fact of wow, though, how sweet it is that we have such a great relationship with our kids. Yeah. And the fact that, you know, we'll get a text from them saying, let's family FaceTime right now, and we all hop on. And it's funny because sometimes we don't even talk about anything. We just sit there and joke and laugh, and they tell us about their days, and that's it. Like it just feels like a hangout in our family living room when we when we do the group FaceTimes.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, you know, this is gonna sound awful, but um when I was uh a young dad, and I honestly there were days where like I just wanted to get away. Uh we're in Texas, and honestly, there were times I think I told you, I'm I'm out, I'm driving to Mexico.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

We had a little joke in our family when we were having a bad day. I'm like, I'm headed to the border. I'm dying. Like, I'm I need a minute.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Yep, yep, I'm gone.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

That was our joke.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Uh I honestly because it was just so much. And I didn't want that when I was young. And and maybe they're and I don't know. I think I think moms are better at this than dads. It's stereotypical of me to say that, but you know, I I I know a lot of dads that with young kids that are just like, man, is this ever gonna end? And the irony is now that it has ended for me, I miss it. It's so it's so crazy because it took me two decades to get adjusted to pouring into them and their needs as a priority. And now if I could only have it back, I would trade anything. I would trade anything to have it back. Literally 22 years, uh 20, 22 years ago, I was I would give anything for some peace and opportunity to go work on our my old classic cars and just you know the things that I had when I was when I was younger, and but but now none of that means anything to me. And I've just changed and grown.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

What do you miss that you didn't expect to miss?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I mean, I I I kind of miss them coming in and wrecking my day. I mean, like I got this plan, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go, and they come in and hey, I got this going on, and it changes everything. It literally wrecks my day. I can't tell you how many times I would get so frustrated whenever, especially they were younger, and we would, and I would be like, oh yeah, you know, I've always had demanding uh jobs, and I would, so I really look forward to the evenings and weekends, and uh, and I'd have this plan I want to go to this car show or or whatever it might be, and then they're sick, or they really want to go to, I don't know, this thing or that thing, or they have sports activities. And I could just I just remember feeling, and I did have feelings back then, they just weren't very they weren't as many as they are now. But I do remember feeling, oh my gosh, am I ever going to be able to breathe again and do what I want to do again? This was 20 years ago. And um, and now if if I would give anything for to for anything I had planned to be wrecks when they come in the door and say, Hey, you want to go do this or you want to go do that? So I know it's so weird because a lot of times we want what we don't have. And I think as we transition into the stage of parenting, for me at least, that's probably the best example of what I miss.

Missing The Noise And Interruptions

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Now, having said that, I'm not, this isn't, I'm not asking if my kids watch this to like destroy my weekend because they got into a car accident or, you know, they did something. I'm not that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is those moments very far and few between when they come in and they have a need. And I have the opportunity as a dad to fill it in a way that points them to Jesus. Like that is what I mean when I say they wreck my day because of the priority that we place on them.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

I was gonna say the noise. Do you remember when the noise would drive you crazy?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Now, now, yeah, but that's we've moved because their noise would drive me crazy. Now it's your snoring that drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

That's a whole conversation, guys.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Noise is still there, it's just from a different source.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Anyone who follows my personal Instagram, you know what we're talking about right now because menopause and your body change and snoring, it's been a whole journey. It's awful, but that's a whole side note.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, but that and I have more emotions and you snore like an elephant now. Horrible, like the trunk.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Not anymore. We found we've we're starting to find a solution after a year. Yes. But um what the noise, I just remember you as a young dad would always say, It's just so loud. Every night is so loud. Every night because the kids would just tackle you when you walked in the door.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

And the what would always happen is they would want to wrestle on our bed while I was finishing dinner. That was just the standard operating procedure in our home. And I would be making finishing dinner, and I would just be hearing screams in there.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

And I think they planned it. When they were younger, they would plan it because my son was more physical. And so he would convince my daughter, who's older, to, you know, tag team to try to take me down. Oh, I I remember dri I'd leave at 6, 5:30 in the morning, drive an hour into work, work, you know, 10, 12 hours, whatever. Those were the tough days. And then, and you know, 45 minutes, hour back home, I'd walk in at 8 o'clock or whatever, nine o'clock. I'm hungry, I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm irritated because of the difficult day. But I remember opening that door and they would hear me. The dogs would start barking, they would hear me, they open the door, and then I could, I could, before I'd have the door all the way swung open, I could hear them yell my name, dad, and they would come running. And I can still envision this in our hallway, how they would come running to me and literally attack me. And it would be, Dad, can we do this? Dad, can we do that? Can we do this? And inside, I just was like, No, no, we can't. And in fairness, look, I I'm not, I've by far, I'm not perfect in anything. In fact, I'm very imperfect in many ways. So there were times, there were times when I would just be like, I have to pass out.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah. But very few, almost always what I remember is looking at your face and you having a fog of so tired. Like I could just tell you were completely wiped out. But you would say, you would normally say, Give me five minutes and I'll be ready.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Like that's what the answer was typically. Now, there were some days when you were like, guys, I just can't.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

So an emotional moment, this is these stupid emotions. When we were getting our oldest out the door to college, um, I remember looking in his closet, and there's this big pillow, and it's a fish.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

You mean the youngest, not the oldest, the youngest, the last one.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

The last one. We we got him out the door this is a couple weeks ago. And um, and so I I remember as we were getting all his final things packed up, I looked in his closet, and there was uh this giant pillow we called Professor Big Fish, and it was sitting up there at the very top, and I remember that that was the pillow that I would use to slam into him. I mean, I would just I would hit him not hard by my means, but by him, and he would fall into the lab and he would love it. Do it again, dad, do it again. And I saw Professor Big Fish as sitting up there in the closet, hasn't been used for years, and it kind of was a moment for me. And um again, I just back, you know, the point here is if you're a dad experiencing this, I'm telling you, it ends.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

It ends. The noise was the thing that that stuck out at me that I thought you would say. And then the other thing is, do you remember for years we would say we just want to be able to finish a conversation?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

That was the thing. We could never finish a conversation because a lot of things we couldn't talk about in front of the kids. Or if it was something like a financial thing or something where we it was fine to talk about, we would get halfway into the conversation, get ready to make a decision, and then boom, something happened, somebody needs something. And we would always say, Man, we just want to be able to finish a conversation. And I look back on those moments now and be like, Man, I I miss being interrupted now. Believe it or not, I miss the mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy. You remember when Carter would do that for the backseat? Yeah, yeah, dad. And you would be like, What, Carter?

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Seeing Young Parents Differently

SPEAKER_00 16:56

uh, yesterday I went out, I grabbed some lunch. I was at a fast food place down here in Texas, and um there was a mom and a dad, I don't know, probably in their mid-twenties, maybe early 30s, they had um two uh, I think your moms call them littles, right? I don't know. I don't know if they were diapers or not. Young kids, yeah, whatever, but they were there, you know, eating their chicken fingers, whatever. And so the mom had her had a newborn. She was feeding it, nursing it. And you just look, I could see the look. I sat directly across, I wasn't like stalking them, I was sitting directly across from them. So every time I looked up, I saw them, and and I just I again it kind of brought back back memories, and um, they looked exhausted. Like I wanted to go hand her like a hundred dollar bill and be like, go get it like a massage or something. The reality is that wouldn't have made a difference. Um, but what you know what I loved about that was uh it was um a man and wife married, um they were a nuclear family, they were you know trying to make it, but but they were listening to like you could tell in at least in that moment, that there was nothing else, their job, their Facebook, their their you know, their houses, their money, there was nothing else that mattered in that moment. They were exhausted, but they had prioritized their children in that moment. I just I didn't say anything to them because that would have been really weird, but uh, I thought it was it was just kind of interesting. I reflected on that. And I think it's great to see.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

You and I had a similar conversation recently because like we're going to church for the first time by ourselves. Like that's strange, it's strange.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And uh we one thing I've stopped doing is I've stopped looking in the back seat and saying, Everybody have their seatbelts on. I I stopped that.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Our kids will be like, that's the most annoying thing dad ever did growing up. Yeah. Every time we wouldn't even be out of the driveway. Everybody got their seatbelts on. Like safety Sam, safety, safety check.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

It's it's awful.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

It's the protector of dad.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Lately when we've been going to church together and we'll walk in and we'll see young families. Yeah. And they're just drained. You know, you see the mom and dad, like they're walking in in the blazing Texas heat. They got kids on their, on their, you know, um, hip and all over the place trying to wrangle these kids in the parking lot, make sure nobody gets hurt. And Matt and I say all the time, like as we pass them, it's it's almost like we're like, go, go parents, go parents. They could be anywhere on a Saturday night and they're at church in the heat, wrangling their kids. They have prior, they have their priority straight.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

No, it it's they're they're getting their kids in church even when they're super tired. Yeah. You know, we've talked a lot about how we're glad we raised our kids in the local church community. And so, aside from that, though, looking back, what are you most grateful for we did as parents?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I I'm most grateful for the fact that we, you know, we raised them um embedded in the love of Jesus, without a doubt. You know, really we looked to God's word for how we needed to raise our kids because I believe it's the most important thing that a human can do that has been given the gift of a child that they they raise them, and they do so according to the direction of our creator, God. In doing that though, practically speaking, it it changes a lot. The priorities shift dramatically when uh on a day-by-day basis, and the choices you make and the things you do, your actions, the things you say and don't say, when you prioritize these things in your life, there are things that you have to give up.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

We've had a lot of conversations through the years about how you have had to sacrifice for our family. And and we've talked a lot about that since the kids have left and we've become empty nesters. Is you know, you have struggled with it a little bit more than I have. My belief is the reasoning is because in our family, you were the provider. You worked a lot outside of the home. I always worked part-time at home, but I had a lot of flexibility. So that meant I had to manage the day-to-day of the kids. So I had a lot of those mom, I need a purple folder, you know, in the middle of the afternoon when we didn't need to go to the store, but now I need to go to the store. Like I had to manage a lot of the busy work.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And so for me, empty nesting is wow, I don't have to have all that busy work anymore. But what I grieve are the special moments of the wrestling, of the quality time, of just, you know, like Carter said, he would crawl in our bed at night and just talk to us about his day. Like those are the things that I miss. And I think that's why you've grieved it so much, is because those were. Your highlights always. You didn't have a lot of the busy. Right. But at the same time, you had to sacrifice a lot in the sense of your interest and what you liked because you were working all these hours, and then you made a choice when you got home to be home instead of pursuing your hobbies.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

And career. And career. Broader career. Yeah. You've made a lot of from from my perspective, and each each man is going to be different. But from my perspective, again, I never envisioned being in this space whenever I was 18 years old. Um, I was I was a only child, and I did what I wanted, when I wanted, where I I went, where I wanted to go. And so, you know, the first big kind of slap in the face of reality when we got married, and it took us a couple years to for me to realize that um it's not about me. And then when we started having kids, that concept of it's not about me just got magnified. And so um, yeah, I mean, I there were a number of things both of us sacrificed in terms of career interests, where we put our money, uh, individual hobbies, the time that would be involved in that. And I I encourage dads to have a good balance of their, like they they do what they love to do, lifting weights, uh, boating, fishing, hunting, I mean, anything. I don't know, you know, whatever it is that you're into as a dad, you know, you need to hold on to those things. But but you gotta understand they're not your priority anymore. The moment your kids see you prioritizing the hobbies and the career and everything else, I can promise you, you've just established their future in their own priorities and interests and everything else. And so again, yeah, we we made a lot of choices very early on strategically that uh that we knew would require sacrifice or choices on our part. And and I I kind of feel like at this point we're kind of starting to see the benefits of those choices that we made.

Early Decisions That Stabilized Home

SPEAKER_01 24:12

So I want to talk about this a little bit because we we had five years of being married before we had kids. And these choices that we were making in those five years, even before we knew if we were going to be able to have children, actually helped looking back. I see that it helped create a stable home for our kids.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, it really did.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

What we were doing in those five years. So, and what I mean by that is a couple things was I I was slated to go to law school. And in those five years, I decided, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to take out a lot of student loans and it's gonna require a lot of work on my part. And I worked in a law firm. So I got exposure to what that life would be like and immediately knew if I wanted to have children that it was going, I would not be able to be at home with the kids. Like I knew that immediately. And so we shifted. The other thing was Matt started making changes about his career. Yeah. I'll let you speak into that.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Well, early on when the kids were young, I had the opportunity to basically go around the world and launch new manufacturing plants with a large manufacturer, and it would have been awesome from a guy's perspective. I mean, it would have been fantastic standing up these things, and but I knew I just I knew seeing from others in the industry that were doing this, uh the taxing on our family, you know, the stress on our family that it would take, and I we talked about it and we elected not to do that. Now, I've still had a you were just a really blessed career up to this point, but again, we what it was a conscious decision on our part with uh very clear priorities. Uh Jesus, you and me, our relationship, and our children.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Before the children even existed, before we were making those decisions, before they existed.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

And again, this is this is all really quite simple, simply laid out in biblical terms.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah. The other thing we did looking back that I think was crucial to the stability of our marriage and therefore our home with our kids was finances. This, this, this, this, and this, this.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Well, I would I would even make the point today in in the United States, financially. All of us are we're all pretty spoiled. Yeah, we pretty much go get do it.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Consumerism, capital, all of it. Yes. I agree with that. And we came into the marriage where where he was used to that, and I was used to I grew up very poor financially. Like my single mom worked three jobs to take care of me, very different backgrounds. And so for me, I obviously didn't want to spend a dime because I was scared we wouldn't have electricity.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Matt's over here, like, let's go buy this plastic car, let's go do this, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Another Jeep, another motorcycle.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

And we completely, those first five years of marriage were the toughest.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

A hundred percent the toughest. Yeah. But that's when we leaned into uh we went to a financial class at our church, Dave Rem Z, and we got on the same page to have the same goals. And now I think we flip-flopped. Like you're more of the saver, you're more of the saver, and I'm more like, let's just trust Jesus, let's go to Italy this year.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I'm telling you, if it keeps going, I'm gonna get into our Amazon account and I am going to change our address or somehow like put like dual authentication on our Amazon account.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Anyway, speak, can you speak into that a little bit? Because what I have seen in you is you being kind of selfish in the beginning, and you have evolved into this sacrificial person, like all you want to do is serve me and the kids. It's so weird, and it's the coolest thing for me to see.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

It's just so weird to me because we went through the process of raising kids. I think I had um, you know, a lot of a lot of I think moms experience an identity crisis because they pour everything that they have into their kids. And and and so and and I know it's great that dads, you know, are involved as well, but I I really do think I mean mothers, you know, they create the children, they give birth to the children. There's there's nothing like that. There's nothing. There's nothing like that. And so um, so I think it it is maybe more normal for the moms to just give every part of themselves the moment they become a mother. It wasn't probably like I don't know that it's like that for dads. Now, when you when a dad sees their child for the first time, everything does change, but they don't always necessarily immediately say, I cannot wait to wake up every moment and and provide for their needs to protect, to provide, to like that, that didn't happen to me immediately. It was kind of a process.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Did it feel more like pressure a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

It was an enormous pressure. There was enormous pressure for me because now, you know, that thousand dollars that we're getting ready to drop on you know, tickets to an amusement park or something like that. Like, well, why can't we use that for these classic car parts? Or I mean that's how that's how I was back then, and I just thought that that was normal and that was life, and maybe it was for an a young, a less mature man. Unfortunately, I see a lot of men my age that still think that way. And this is why I think it's so important that that as early as possible that dads really take control of their own decisions and their own thoughts and really establish true priorities in their life. Because what's weird right now is I can't when I wake up every day, I I I've almost now got to a point where I'm conditioned to find the greatest joy on earth giving and providing and taking care of and answering questions and and and unfortunately, fortunately or unfortunately, that's really that role has evolved now. But it took me some time very right away. It was um it was amazing. But I mean, I remember whenever Carter was born into the hospital, like I, you know, I thought this was gonna take a while, the actual birthing process. And so I was like, well, hey, it's lunch. I'm gonna run down and grab like a turkey sandwich at the hospital, like cafeteria thing. And I come back up with it in my hand, and you're you're I'm screaming at you.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Where you been? Where going?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

And more important, like, here he comes. And I'm like, we're gonna do this now. Like, I gotta eat this turkey sandwich. I mean, that that and and now to go from that 19 years ago to a point where honestly I'm struggling to wake up every morning now and not have them here for me to provide for them and to give them what they need. It's it that's the struggle now in this new season of life. And to go from from like frustrated, I'm not gonna be able to knock out that turkey sandwich because you're gonna, you know, give birth to our child, to a point where like I just miss them so much because like all I the joy in my life outside of Jesus really is just providing, and and like like that's the where I find the greatest joy. It's so weird.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yeah, I have seen you go t from selfish to servanthood over these more than two decades. And you know, some people would say parenting changed Matt, and it for sure did, but more than anything, I think Jesus changed Matt.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Well, it's not ironic that God used his son to change the world. And I I do believe that uh as parents that uh that God will work with us through our kids and and will fully deliver us and our kids.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Young families who are just now starting out and just getting married, you're you're both coming into this marriage with different ways of doing life, different ways of looking at things. And you're probably both selfish people because we are more selfish when we're younger and we have we want it our way. I would say don't ignore that, but push into it and have really hard conversations with your spouse.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

And and why this is so important in parenting, even if you don't have kids yet, is because you're setting up the foundational culture of your home. And if you guys haven't worked it out and then you start adding kids, what happens is often we see the pressure builds. There's no good communication, or uh mom and dad aren't on the same page. We're not headed in the same direction with finances, with careers, with our time management. And then that creates an unstable home to where when it gets crazy with kids, like especially teenage years, the emotional roller coaster of the teenage years, especially, you don't have the margin to even have the conversations with your teens because this is not okay. Yeah. And I think this is why it's so important to have these marital conversations before we even get to all the parenting stuff.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Yeah.

Hard Conversations And Feeling Trapped

SPEAKER_00 34:10

And you know what? That's one of the hardest things because again, as dads, uh, as young men marrying typically young women to very immature people, there's so much change that happens in those early, early points, and it's it's a lot of hard work. But again, just from a from a man's perspective, I don't want to have all of those conversations. Conversations exhaust me. I want to be in a garage working on something, or I want to be out making money or building something. Uh, I don't really want to be talking about things. Um, and so I I don't I want to be clear when you say that from a for because I don't want any dad, any young guy out there um to think, oh no, another conversation on the couch that has all the downside risk to me. There's no upside to me. She's gonna she's gonna lose it, she's gonna get mad, it's gonna ruin my day, not gonna be able to make that tea time, can't buy those. I mean, there's no upside unless you're the wife that recognizes that there's only one way, in my opinion, to successfully get your husband to not just listen, but to hear you. And that is you know, largely what we teach at Next Talk. And and, you know, don't go crazy mom mode, parent mode, don't go crazy wife mode. I mean, it's all all these simple biblical principles uh that that are just they're they're basic, they're foundational. There's nothing new under the sun here. It's just it's that you just have to dig in and do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Uh, James 119, you know, quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to get angry. It matters when you're building the culture in your home. How important was it when you were struggling? I I did through the years realize that you were under intense pressure and that you would look at the kids like I was just enjoying all their cuteness and all their first, you know, at 10 a.m. while we're getting our first snack or whatever of the day. But but I there was a shift in me through the years as we talked and you were able to open up more and you were able to tell me I feel pressure. And when he first started communicating that to me, what I felt like was, well, if you truly love me, this would just be great. Like, why am I, why am I a problem? Or why are the kids a problem? Like I would get snappy. But I had to shift that, that defensive, like, why is this about me? And really hear my husband to say, why do you feel pressure? Tell me what that feels like. He would he would often use the word trapped. I feel trapped. Like I have all these people to protect and provide for, and there's so much pressure, and I feel trapped. And I would get so defensive at first about hearing that. Because in my brain, that means you don't love me. Or there's a problem with me or our marriage because you feel trapped. But that's not what you were describing. And I I want you to kind of unpack that a little because I believe this happens a lot in marriages. And it there's a fundamental breakdown of communication between husband and wife. And if we're not good, we can't pour into our kids the way we need to.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

And I can only speak from my perspective, when both of our kids were very young, where I think it finally, it finally hit me, this isn't about me. This world, this like what I'm doing when I wake up every day, it's no longer about me and my interests and what I want to do. And um, you know, so I think in that moment, when it hit me that um when I wake up every morning, it it's really isn't about me anymore. In fact, when I wake up in the morning, it's about other people. And realistically, it's about the other right now in that moment, it's about the other people that I care for and love the most, my wife and my children. When that hit me as a young dad, it was like a ton of bricks. Because it's okay, I found ways as a younger dad to cope with me failing myself. If I didn't do this well enough, if I didn't, you know, if I if I didn't dunk when I was weighed a lot less and I had was a lot stronger, if I didn't dunk the ball, you know, during the game, right? I missed it, okay, fine. Like all, you know, if I didn't save up enough money, if I didn't get, you know, wasn't able to buy that car that I like all of those things I could rationalize and I could, I could just be okay with it didn't happen, I could justify it, I could be fine for myself. But when when you really take ownership of the reality that as a husband and a dad, particularly as a Christian husband and dad, like if you you accept the fact that every moment of your waking life, it's no longer about you, but it's about other people, which again, it's this is very much a Christian theme. Um, I took enormous interest in

A New Purpose Beyond The Kids

SPEAKER_00 39:40

that. And in I took that about as serious as you could get.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Purpose. It gave you purpose.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

I had purpose before, but it the purpose was me. And now my purpose shifted to be others. And ironically, just so ironic with where we are in our stage of life right now, I'm starting to question about whether or not maybe my next purpose in life is to take this same care and admiration and interest that I have in our children and in their interest above mine, and and really now sh have that same interest in all other people as a follower of Jesus. That same that same tenacious interest and desire to put everyone else before my needs. Can I do that with my neighbors? Can I do that with people who don't like me? Can I do it with that moron that cut me off on the highway the other day? Can I like can I really like in my next stage? Can I have that same compassion and care and passion of that I had toward putting the interests and the cares and the needs of my children? Can I now do that for God's children? I put that as a question because I'm working through that. But like I'm it's a it's something I'm wrestling with right now.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

I think the world, world's message is pour into your kids, you know, chase the career, get all the stuff. And, you know, when the kids leave, you've got more time for you. You can buy all the stuff for you. You can, it can be about you again. And what's so interesting in the Christian life, you know, we we talk about this thing about sanctification. And if you don't know what that is, it's just like being more like Jesus every day, right? We just get better and better and better. We're never going to be perfect, but we definitely get more like Jesus as we learn and grow and mature in our faith. And for us, it's been like, okay, we're pouring into these kids. And truly, we don't have a lot of regrets, which is which is very peaceful in the emptiness stage because we gave it our all. Doesn't mean it doesn't mean we don't have regrets in maybe handling a situation or things we may have said that we shouldn't have said. Of course, we have those regrets.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I would not, I would not have gotten a turkey sandwich in the midst of your childbirth.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yes. Everybody has regrets, right? But I don't regret that. Like I know I gave it my all. Yeah. That's what I have so much peace about. I still got stuff wrong. I still had to apologize. But looking back, knowing that we gave it our all and we love our kids and we have a good relationship with them as young adults. It kind of does something about your faith and trust in Jesus in that surrendering yourself and it not being about you because you see the fruit of it. You see the fruit of, I didn't make my family about me, I didn't make my home about me. I sacrificed and I we served each other. And then they're gone now. And now it can be all about us again. Yeah, I could, I could buy the muscle car I always wanted, I could buy the motorcycles, I could get the boats, I could but we're here kind of praying about wait a minute, we we gave up ourselves and it was beautiful. Now we need to do that on a more it's okay. Like it's outside of our home basis.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

And if I buy that Corvette I've always wanted, you know, okay, fine. But what's so crazy is now that I can, it's just it's just not a big thing anymore. It's just, it doesn't bring the same level of joy. Uh, even the idea of it, uh, it just it just doesn't do it for me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

I think that's a word for for dads and moms too who their hobbies do shift. Because you were a big classic car guy when I met you. I mean, that was just what you love to do. And even the first five years of our marriage, you did before we have children. And that's why a lot of we had a lot of fights over money with the car expenses. Like that was a whole conversation.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

But yeah, always make sure you ask. First, rather than beg for asking permission rather than beg for forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Yeah. And we had to work through all of that early on. But now what you're saying is we have the time. We have more money now than we did when we were first married. And you can. And you're just like, it just pales in comparison to the joy of raising my children and pouring into somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

And honestly, it pales in comparison to the uh, you know, I told you to mention these feelings that these new feelings as I get older that I don't like. Um, I didn't invite these feelings somehow. They're taking up shop and I love it.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

It's awful. It's awful.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Um, but but I I it's just so weird to me that um I would be sitting here right now at almost 50 years old and think that like I could do whatever I want. Uh I'm no longer trapped, I no longer feel trapped with demands of the kids' responsibility, responsibilities of all of these things. Um, and I'm not the same person I was. I'm unrecognizable, and it really wasn't by my desire or design. And I really like who I am now.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

That's it's like a full circle moment for me after all we've walked through, all the arguments, all the all the struggles.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

You were you were so argumentative.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I was spicy. Oh my god. I was spicy. In fact, there were so many times when we were raising teenagers, and you know, the attitude and the spice would come, and I would talk to Matt about it behind closed doors, and he would say, That kid is you.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yeah. I mean, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

And I've changed, I've softened. I mean, I think that's why avoid crazy parent mode and wife mode is at the forefront of the next talk culture, is because I had to be sanctified in that way.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

I was so true. Very argumentative.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

So it's so true. You know, thinking about our kids and you know, where they are in their lives and as they, you know, the folks that, you know, the their significant others that they're talking to, and will they marry, will they not, you know, these type of things. It's so so weird. But it's also so interesting to see us and them. And I am just so excited to see that they're that where they are right now in their lives, they're starting so far ahead of where we were. And I and I really believe that that God can use them in really awesome ways. I really honestly attribute uh a big portion of that to a lot of the sacrifices we made very early on and every day, and just grinding through those horrible, horri, horrible, difficult nights and days when you want to be somewhere else, whether you're man or husband or wife, you just want to be somewhere else. Like that mom with the infant nursing the infant at the restaurant that I saw yesterday. I mean, that that poor lady, man, she just looked like she'd been hit by a truck. And but she she was in it. I mean, she was in it nursing, you know, joking with the oldest who was, I don't know, maybe four years old or something, and then there's the other one that was smaller, and and yeah, just again, it you can just see in the behaviors of these mom and dads where their heart is. Where is your heart? And you can see in the f in the fruit or in their behaviors and their outcomes and their actions. You can see those that are prioritizing their their God, Jesus, their marriage, and their children first and foremost. You can it's you can see it.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

And it will make all the difference when things do get tough, because things will get tough with the kids. They're gonna they're gonna say things that are like, what in the world? They're gonna push your boundaries. They're they're gonna do all the things that teenagers do still. But the decisions that we made early on about our careers, our finances, all of that allowed us then when the really bad stuff came, it gave us the margin to focus on what we needed to focus on and not be trapped by the finances or the big house or whatever we were trying to achieve other than our kids.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah, very true.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

And looking back, I'm super grateful we made those decisions because we would not have had the bandwidth to deal with the troubled teenage years when they did come.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

It's so tough too for young parents these days because everything's so expensive. You know, the cost of you know, a single family home first first home is so expensive, you know, it almost it's really hard for two for a single, you know, to set it up the way we had. I mean, you can still do it, but it takes even more sacrifice and and intentionality to do that. So there's no doubt the challenges these days these days to prioritize um your family the way we're discussing, uh, it is really hard. There's no doubt it's really hard. But everything in life that's worth having is difficult. There's it's just there's no free lunch.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

It matters.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

And look how it changes people, look how it changes you to do the hard things. Look how at the at the at the end of this thing, what uh not the end, but on the other side of these challenges. I mean, look how it's changed us in a way that we never thought we even wanted it to become.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

We're better people. We're but we're better humans. And and like I said before, parenting did change us for sure, but more than anything, above that, it was it was the Jesus. It was surrendering daily to what we wanted. We didn't make ourselves God. It we didn't put either one of us on a pedestal. We we simply rolled up our sleeves, said, Lord, we're here to serve our kids and our family, tell tell us what to do. And I do want to speak a word into like just young busy parents. You may not see the fruit right now, but keep doing what you know is right. God, family, keep your priorities in check because every decision does matter.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

It certainly does.

Staying Connected And Final Encouragement

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah, you got ever anything else to add?

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Uh no, I've got I I'm I'm empty. My tank is empty.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Well, I know that you've struggled a lot with empty nesting, but I will say I've seen you come around these last these last couple weeks in the sense of you're looking forward to the next season now. Of what does God have for us?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

What are we supposed to be doing here?

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah, you know, once you start doing the hard work, it's kind of like you don't it feels weird to stop. You know, we could have gone out and got that new that Corvette I've always wanted, or whatever the case. This would have been band-aids. And again, it's just it's so weird to get to this point. I'm so it's crazy to think about, you know, if we're if I'm able to live another 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years, like what I'll be like then walking this walk with Jesus and following you know the direction that he gives us in the scripture to prioritize him, our family, and then others. And again, it's it's just it's pretty wild. Uh, but I am doing better. And and I'm actually kind of excited. Now, I don't want our kids to stop calling. I really don't want our kids to stop calling. And so, um, and I'll, you know, I'll bribe them. I'll, you know, no, I will bribe them. I'll bribe them. It's so funny. I'll bribe them with steak. I'll like, okay, well, I'll take you, let's go to the steakhouse. Or I'll bribe them and I'm like, hey, listen, I'll take you that Spurs game, right? I'll bribe you, like whatever it takes just to get another minute of your time and your interest.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Well, we're we're just staying plugged into their lives, you know? Like they're they're separated now, and we're doing a fantasy football league with just our family and some close friends. Yeah, it's another dialogue. It's another way to stay connected to them. Uh, we're planning trips and visits and and you know, we don't, we're not pushing it on them. That's the thing. We're kind of waiting for them to lead, but the minute they open the door, we're like, yep, we're there. We're we're doing it. If if you want us there. So that's been fun. It's been and it's been fun to see that of course they don't need us in a way that they did when they lived with us. It's totally changed. But they still need us.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Yeah, it'd be better if those NBA tickets weren't so darn expensive. It'd be a lot nicer if it those were cheaper.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Taking your kid to an NBA game instead of that Corvette.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Or it'd be but still priority.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

It's priorities, or you know, it'd be great if she didn't want steak. Instead, she would have been like good with a burger. But hey, you know what? It's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

I'm really proud of you. I've watched you over the years say yes more than you say no, even though you're very tired a lot. And I think that's important and it's a word to to say yes to your family and maybe say no to some things outside of the home because now we're here and we can say yes to all the stuff outside of the home. Thanks for being here, hon. I appreciate your time and your vulnerability talking about your feelings.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Love you.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Next

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SPEAKER_00 54:10

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