The nextTalk Parent Podcast with Mandy Majors
The nextTalk Podcast with Mandy Majors helps parents navigate technology, cultural pressures, and difficult conversations with their children. Through practical guidance, honest stories, and faith-centered encouragement, parents learn how to replace fear and reaction with open communication, biblical wisdom, and stronger family relationships.
Join award-winning author Mandy Majors (TALK and Keeping Kids Safe in a Digital World) for honest, practical conversations at the intersection of technology, culture, and faith.
There are plenty of tools to control technology — but at nextTalk, we go deeper. We help parents build the kind of trusting relationship where kids actually come to them when something goes wrong.
nextTalk is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to keeping kids safe by fostering a culture of open communication in families, churches, and schools.
The nextTalk Parent Podcast with Mandy Majors
Phone-Free Schools: Mom on a Mission
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What happens when a mother's worst nightmare becomes her life's mission? Maurine Molak never imagined that losing her son would transform her into one of the nation’s most powerful advocates for children's online safety in the US. Yet through unimaginable grief, she found purpose in creating change that could prevent other families from experiencing similar tragedies.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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David's Story: Cyberbullying's Fatal Impact
Speaker 1Welcome to the Next Talk podcast . We are a nonprofit passionate about keeping kids safe online . We're learning together how to navigate tech , culture and faith with our kids . Today on the podcast , we have Maureen Molak . She's been here once before , but it was like , oh my gosh , like eight years ago . Maureen , welcome back . Thank you , mandy , it's great to be back . You are a mom on a mission . That's how I describe you to people . She's a mom on a mission and the mission started many years ago with your son , david , and if you could take us back and just share that story with us , let's start there so our listeners know your heart behind the legislative work that you're doing .
Speaker 2Yeah , thanks , mandy . It's a mission that I don't think any parent wants to be on , but I'm just , you know , have a path to try to make sure that no other parent has to walk in my shoes . And my sweet David was 16 years old when he died by suicide after months of relentless and threatening cyberbullying across many platforms , specifically Instagram , by a group of classmates where they were threatening him , saying things like put him in a body bag , put him six feet under . They were threatening him not to come to school , even to the point to where we had to move schools to try to get him away from his perpetrators . What we didn't understand at the time is that cyberbullying doesn't require geographic proximity , and it ended up following him to his new school .
Speaker 2But David's story really started before the cyberbullying , about a year before that . David was a great basketball player . He was tall and lanky and he was really good at it , and he had a serious injury and while he was rehabbing , he turned to social media and online gaming to fill the void and over a period of about eight , nine months , we started to see a real change in his behavior , where he was showing all of the signs of a behavioral addiction . He was lying about completing his homework . He was angry and aggressive when we would try to get him to stop . He was sneaking around using his devices when they were supposed to be locked up in the kitchen and then there , towards the end , he started stealing from us in order to purchase virtual assets , to increase his player power through some of these gaming platforms .
Speaker 2David spent a lot of time on YouTube watching these professional gamers . They were teaching him the tips and tricks and tactics on how to circumvent parental controls and basically how to steal from your parents without their knowledge . David knew he was a smart kid and he knew there was something wrong with his behavior , but he could not control himself and he had this false identity of who he thought he was online . And it was at that period of time when he was really struggling with his mental health and we were getting him supports . I mean , he had a therapist , we were seeking help through the medical community , and it was at that point when the cyberbullying started and it just went on and on and on for months and you know it was really the final match on a huge bonfire that exploded in our home and that's when we lost him .
Speaker 1Man . I , you know , I have an athlete , a basketball player too , and he had an injury and going from being super active to being taken out and not being able to do anything , their mental health . It is challenging . And then you add in the technology and all of these things that are luring our kids in . It is really difficult to manage .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely . David was the youngest of three brothers , and so he grew up in that stage where technology really just exploded , and so he had a much more higher interest in technology because from a little age he was watching his older brothers and so he developed , I really feel like from a very early age , more of a sensitivity to it and was way more drawn to technology than his older brothers were . So it was . You know , if I could go back , of course , and do it all over again , I would do it so completely different . I did not know back then what I know now , and so what I'm doing is trying to hopefully , you know provide a message that parents can learn from and maybe take some tips from that .
Speaker 1We have a whole generation of parents that are like , oh , like we , we didn't know , like I'm part of that generation , you know , like I would do things differently with with how I rolled out a phone to my kids , all of it because it's been a big experiment and it came crashing at us and I feel like that's what AI is now Like . We're just now starting to get a handle on social media and now we have AI crashing , which is a whole new beast .
Speaker 2Yeah , and then what's it going to be in 10 years ? I mean , it'll be something else as quickly as it evolves .
Speaker 1You're so right . You're so right . So , ever since you know the loss of David I know we met back in , I think , 2016 , 2017 . You were the first family that I knew of a child who you know had been cyberbullied and lost this child , and I remember meeting you for coffee and just hearing your story and crying Like I just couldn't wrap my mind around that that had happened to your son . And then , since then , though , you have really gotten involved in the legislative side of things , because you were saying there are certain things that would have protected my son in this situation . So the first thing you did was David's Law in Texas . Explain to our listeners what that law is .
Speaker 2David's Law is a comprehensive law . It affects the education code , the civil code and the criminal code and what we wanted to do was make sure that we gave tools to parents , students , educators and law enforcement that didn't exist when we were trying to get help for David at that period of time . You know , what we often heard from schools was that when it occurred off campus , they didn't necessarily have the authority to be able to take action on that . So we wanted to make sure that we gave them the explicit authority to be able to intervene in those situations when it impacted a student's educational opportunities or the learning environment , which it did for David , because we had to end up moving schools to be able to get away from it . It also affected the other students at his school that were watching it happen and many of those students came to us after David died and said how sorry they are . I mean they were crying and sobbing with their parents because they had seen it and they'd gone to their parents that night and told their parents you know , look what they're doing to David and their parents said don't get involved , it may turn on you , and that guilt that they felt , that they carried with them .
Speaker 2You know the year after David died and I'm sure that some of them still remember it today . I occasionally will hear some from some of his classmates . But we did . We just wanted to make sure that we were trying to do everything that we could to cover those bases and provide those tools to be able to address cyberbullying and also to be able to give law enforcement some additional teeth . The criminal code talked about fax machines and pagers , and we just updated it to include cell phones and more of gaming systems and electronic devices . And then we provided a civil remedy for parents to be able to get an injunction against a cyber bully , as well as the cyber bully's parents , requiring the parents to make their child stop the cyber bullying .
Speaker 1David's Law passed . What year Was it ? 2017 ? It was yes , okay so , and then recently you've been involved in all kinds of legislative , but recently we saw phones being banned in schools and you also were a part of this law , and I kind of want to understand the heartbeat behind that as well .
Speaker 2David's cyberbullying actually started on campus during school lunch and there were some compromising videos taken between David's girlfriend and another boy . And those videos were taken during lunch and uploaded on social media . And students would come up to David during passing periods and shove their phone in his face and say you cannot protect her . And this was all part of a plot . There was a group of boys that were very jealous of David and his girlfriend , and so they were doing everything that they possibly could in knowing that he was in a very vulnerable state , knowing what they could do to try to torment him and break them up .
Speaker 2So at the time like this was 10 years ago the idea of prohibition of cell phones on school campuses , they were just starting to come on school campuses and we didn't really understand all of the things that those cell phones could do at the time and how much harassment could be caused by them .
Speaker 2And so over the several years I started working on that . But in the back of my mind I always knew schools were not a place for these devices . Schools were not a place for these devices . I knew that David was using his devices on school grounds during class time where he was playing video games and he was doing things that he should not have been able to do , and the fact that he had access to those phones and the ability to be able to do that I knew was very problematic . So that's really why . And then , of course , as everybody knows , the anxious generation , when it came out with Jonathan Haidt and we all learned of his recommendations , of what we could do to help young people and their screen addiction ,
From Tragedy to Legislation: David's Law
Speaker 2and one of the four key pieces is phone-free schools , and so I had a lot of other states who had actually joined in , and Texas was , I believe , the 15th state to pass a phone-free school bill .
Speaker 1And what are you hearing about it ? Because I have a senior in high school , so I've got my own things I want to say . But what are you hearing about it ? Because I have a senior in high school , so I've got my own , you know things I want to say . But what are you hearing about ? Because we also we had a woman on our podcast last season and she said you know , the biggest pushback is parents want to get in touch with their kids in the event of an emergency . Sure , that was the biggest pushback of all . And so how do you answer that ? And what are you hearing about what people are saying ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean I can completely relate to that , but let me just kind of back up a little bit . So what the bill is it's actually gives school districts the autonomy to decide whether or not it is a complete ban from school or that they provide a secure storage method for those devices during the school day . So a lot of flexibility there on how they're going to implement the fact that students can't use their device in personal devices and that includes smartwatches , earbuds , glasses , ipads and tablets earbuds , glasses , ipads and tablets and so we want to make sure is that school districts do have their . You know they can make these independent policy decisions as long as they're prohibiting them . You know we're hearing that school districts are adopting very well to that . There are ways that kids can get in touch with their parents through their issued devices from the schools . Kids are learning how to email their parents from those devices .
Speaker 2Most of the classrooms , from what I'm hearing , have their own , either a landline or a dedicated cell phone that students can use in case of an emergency .
Speaker 2They can always go to the school office if they have a personal emergency to be able to use that .
Speaker 2And then you know from the other perspective of should there be something terrible happening on your school campus , right , we've all experienced that in various ways and with school shootings .
Speaker 2What we're hearing from the security experts and the FBI and all of those individuals that are working in school safety is that it is really best practice for those students not to be distracted by their phones in these situations , because we want to make sure that they are listening to the teacher If they need to be hiding in a situation , you know , god forbid , a ding or a light go off with a you know and you know a school shooter would be able to see that go off and be able to find students that were hiding in the situation , as well as jamming the communication .
Speaker 2You know , wi-fi and all of that stuff that's coming in , where the law enforcement is trying to get into the school to understand what is going on . But I get it . I was a parent and with kids in K through 12 school I don't have them anymore , I'll have grandchildren in the school , so it is something that I really do care about , but as long as we are doing everything we can to make our school safe and that there is a way for parents to be able to contact their kids .
Speaker 1I think those are all great points I love . To the autonomy of the school district . You know , for my son's school district they are away bell to bell right now . We'll see if it lasts all year . I'm very hopeful that it's going to . But they are in their backpacks , like they do have them with them and so but . But it is being enforced , you know , to be to be away all day . And that has been a change in my district because we used to say we're phone free but we really weren't phone free .
Speaker 1And that's what we were seeing , yeah , and now it's actually being . And I think that does actually more damage when we say we're phone free and we're not , because then it's like with parents do try to have like no phones in bedrooms , or no , it's like , well , the lines are blurred at school , so they're going
Phone-Free Schools: Creating Safer Learning Environments
Speaker 1to be blurred here , like we can't . So we have to mean what we say and say what we mean . Right , it has to be enforced . It has to be enforced .
Speaker 2And and and really there's no flexibility in in the actual law . It says there needs to be a prohibition of use for the school day and that includes passing periods and lunchtime . School districts do have flexibility to increase that where they could say , okay , during extracurricular activities or pep rallies or field trips , those types of nuances a school district can determine . But really , really , from first bell to last bell , those devices need to be up , but school districts have the flexibility to determine if that is a complete ban or if it's a storage . What is that storage , as well as what are those discipline measures , measures , and so giving school districts the autonomy to be able to decide . You know what's the first warning , second warning , third warning Is there a grace period , as we're all trying to get used to this , parents and students alike ? So we're seeing a lot of nuances there .
Speaker 2But I am heartened by the number of school districts that have embraced this in a way with the fidelity of the law , reading the plain language in it , following the intent of the law , and I'll attribute that to the fact that those school districts have really looked into what is the value of doing this , what are the positive outcomes that we are going to see what is the research showing us and if they really dig into that and they're able to talk to parents and students about this is not punitive . You know we're not doing this to be the bad guy . This is because we care about you . We want you to have a six and a half seven hour distracted , free , disruption free day , because we have your mental health and well-being at top of mind here and we know that if that is not in a good spot then you can't learn and we're going to provide the best learning environment for our young people .
Speaker 1Well , I mean , how many good teachers are we losing because the behavior of kids is out of control and a lot of that is phone use . Immediately when I saw the law passed , I thought of David , because I knew there were videos of him taking during lunch . I know with my own kids they've been exposed to things by other people's phones at lunch . So when I was like bell to bell yes , this is it , because this is going to help people delay phones , kids not get exposed on school grounds , the bullying aspect , and even like we've helped people that , like teachers , are being recorded and made fun of , and so teachers deserve to be able to walk into school and not be afraid that their students are going to video them and make fun of them all night on social media .
Speaker 2I completely agree .
Speaker 2I mean , we're hearing that teachers that are in schools and the policies are strong policies and they are enforced .
Speaker 2Those teachers have a much higher level of satisfaction than those schools who are only adopting instruction only you know classroom time and not you know , because , if you think about it , those kids that may get their device during a passing period , the last five minutes of class , they're thinking what app am I going to open first when I get out of class , when I can turn my phone back on ? We're also seeing that there's a lot more tardies in those schools that allow or don't have a serious enforcement mechanism . Maybe they have a policy but they're not enforcing it during classroom period . We're also seeing that during lunchtime kids are way more engaged . Schools are providing ping pong tables and foosball tables and games for kids to play . They're seeing much better social interaction among students . Rates of cyberbullying , vaping and fighting are down in school districts when they are enforcing strong policies . So it really is . It's a win-win for those school districts that are really going above and beyond and following the fidelity and the spirit of the bill .
Speaker 1Well , honestly , I think a lot of school districts wanted to ban it , and they tried to by saying we're going to try this , but then it wasn't enforced . And when it was enforced by the school district , parents got mad and yelled at the school . So then we had an issue where parents and school admin were fighting back and forth about the phones . Right , I mean , that's what was happening . And so what I love about the law is it just kind of gives an excuse . Nope , this is a law now . It's the law . We're going to do this and we're going to see how this works . We did a shout out on social media like just tell us what you think about it . You know , like , what do you think about this new law ? And the responses were so cool because parents were like I taught my kid how to fold an 80s note and and you know , my kids are writing notes now and they come home from school and they're more engaged in conversation , like they're looking at me more , and I'm like , wow , this is really positive feedback .
Speaker 2Yeah , I even heard a story about a school district that was putting in old fashioned phone booths for kids to be able to call their parents if they needed to . I mean , schools are embracing it , lots of schools , and that's what really is , you know , special , because this is a gift to these kids to be able to go to school , you know , and not have those distractions and disruptions .
Speaker 1There's just so much pressure that I don't think we can understand that comes from a phone constantly being recorded . I mean , I can't tell you how many families we've helped where somebody has inadvertently been taking a picture of or video in a locker room while they're changing and they thought they were private , but it's caught in the background of just selfies all the time , and so I've been shouting for a decade we at least have to get these phones out of locker rooms and bathrooms . It's really dangerous . I love that this encompasses all of that .
Speaker 2Yeah , for sure . And the anxiety . What I was hearing a lot was the anxiety around kids feeling like they were going to be a picture snapped of them in a compromising picture and uploaded , or a video taken of them and so just being able to remove that . We're seeing also the rates of depression and anxiety in the school day going down .
Speaker 1Well , and I don't even think some of the kids who are walking through it understand how positive it is right now , like I think they'll look back , you know , after the school year is over . I mean , we went to our first Friday high school football game and I told my husband I was like , look around , none of these kids are on their phones . They're all like talking to each other . That's great . And I was like , is this because of the new law ? Because typically you would just see this at a football game and it just felt like a normal football game , less people on their phones , people talking . It just was an exciting time to be there , right ?
Speaker 2We just need kids , we want them to be kids . You know , we want the childhood back for kids and it's just , and we can do that and we're making a good , good step with this bill
Federal Action: The Kids Online Safety Act
Speaker 2of it .
Speaker 1For some reason , God has put you on this legislative path . You're in DC all the time , so you've helped with these two laws big balls in Texas that have really impacted our kids .
Speaker 2But you also working on the federal side , I have , yeah , for the last three years . You know I started advocating for the Kids Online Safety Act and you know that's a bill that basically holds social media companies accountable for their design features that harm kids . So the mental health harms , so those features like infinite scroll and the auto feeds of the videos and make , like you know , counts of the videos and make , like you know , counts , and those types of things that are impacting young people's mental health , as well as those physical harms , which are things like drug dealers that are using social media to contact kids and sell them drugs , and some of those drugs are laced with fentanyl . We've had a lot of families that I've been in communication with that have died , as well as eating disorders and sextortion . I know that you've had Brian Montgomery on your show a couple of times and he's part of our group that's advocating for the Kids Online Safety Act and we've been doing this for about three years .
Speaker 2But a year ago I started Parents for Safe Online Spaces , which is Parents SOS , and we're a group of 20 parents who have all lost children to online harms , and we're a core group that goes to DC and advocates for this bill . It's basically what we're asking for is safety by design and safety by default . So making sure that those parental tools , all of them , are on the highest level of safety when that app is first , when that child first logs into that app . So the parent it's not on the parent to go in there and turn on those safety guards , that . It's actually the platform's responsibility to do that when they have a young person on their platform , and so it's a very common sense .
Speaker 2It was bipartisan . We almost passed it last year . It came out of the Senate 91 to 3 , which is basically unheard of in Congress . You don't have that kind of bipartisan support and it just got stalled in the House and we were very disappointed by year end . But it's been reintroduced . We're waiting still waiting on text from the House , but we're hoping that we're going to have that soon and we'll be back in DC continuing to advocate for that , as long as what we get is a strong bill . There's nothing worse than a bill that either is , you know , doesn't do anything or is more harmful to young people .
Speaker 1Well , I remember when I met Brian and we had him on our show and the first thing I thought was he has to know Maureen , because nobody can speak into this like a mom who's been through this right . I remember connecting you guys and you said I said , maureen , he needs you , like their family needs you right now . And you were like this is a support group . Nobody wants to be in , yeah , and and you guys have this 20 families that have come together and kind of devoted your life now , uh , to to making changes so that our kids can be safer online .
Speaker 2It's a path that nobody wants to be on , but we know what the risks are . We know if these social media companies are not accountable for it's basically the design feature . I mean the business model , right ? So engagement is what drives their profits . And how do you get engagements ?
Speaker 2It's the most damaging . The most theatrical , drama-driven , horrific content is what kids are going to like , get their eyes glued on that , and so if they can't be held responsible for those features , like the algorithm that is feeding that content to young people even when they're not searching for it , you know , that's the one thing about COSA is it's not . It's not based on content . It's based on those design features that are putting , forcing that content on young people in order to drive their profits up . So that's what we want to do . We want to make sure that there are just some common sense guardrails in place to protect would have protect Walker , brian's son . Would have protect David , my son , and the hundreds and hundreds thousands of other children that have died from online harms , as well as the hundreds of thousands of students if not in millions of students that are being impacted by it every day .
Speaker 1You know , here at Next Talk , we focus on the parents , you know , getting involved and being the solution . And what I love about what you're doing is you're saying we've got to come alongside parents . Parents need help . We're not saying parents shouldn't be doing all these things , but but but parents need help with this , because right now , we just have this machine out here filling an algorithm when a when a kid enters a birth date , when they know they're , they're not an adult , and they're feeding certain algorithm to that . That must stop .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , absolutely . Parents aren't asking for a pass , we're just asking for help . I mean , as soon as you figure out you know one app , you know how many more pop up , and then you're actually it could be a full-time job . It's just to figure out how all of these apps work and what are all the safeguards on each of these individual apps . What COSA would do is say you know each one of those , it has to be on the highest safeguard and if a parent wants to go in there and relax those safeguards , they have the authority to be able to do that . But parents are struggling right now not only with just daily life and holding their families together , and , adding this to it , it is a huge burden to parents .
Speaker 1Well and , like you said , all of our laws are outdated . I mean we don't even talk about phone use in most of our laws , so a lot of it is just updating with the technology part and the access that we have today .
Speaker 2A lot of it is just updating with the technology part and the access that we have today , right , absolutely . And you know , like I said in David's law , we had to update it from fax machines and pagers . I say that to kids today and they're just like well , what is that ? Nobody even knows what that is .
Speaker 1So yeah , we're just so outdated and I hate to think about the laws in AI . Just it is just evolving quickly where we need to , where we really need to be in tune to our kids and their phones and what they're doing , because it is evolving faster than when we can keep
Parents SOS: Uniting Families Affected by Online Harms
Speaker 1up with .
Speaker 2It is very scary out there and we're hearing story after story of kids who have engaged with these chatbots and , as far as I'm concerned , no child should have access to a chatbot period . There should be a strict law about that , because a child getting information from a machine when they think it's an adult human interaction is not healthy , and we need to make sure that we're trying to put some guardrails in place to protect kids .
Speaker 1Yeah , I had a pastor on one time and he said Pastor Ed Newton from CBC , he said AI does not have a soul . And when he said that I was like that's so true , and kids are asking it advice , like it would give moral advice . And it's not , it's a machine .
Speaker 2Right and they're building these relationships with them when they're searching for something else in life , and that chatbot is reinforcing everything that that child is saying . Instead of giving you know , telling them they need to be talking to a trusted human adult , a parent , you know , somebody who cares about them . Instead it just keeps reinforcing that negative behavior that that child is discussing between this machine and themselves and they just they don't understand that , yeah , it's just .
Speaker 1it's never been so important to get educated about what's going on , understand what our laws are , what they aren't , and be able to fill in the gaps for your family . Yeah , is there anything else you would like to share with our parents , maureen ?
Speaker 2I would just like to encourage them to go to parentssosorg , read the stories , read the 20 stories of the families and the children who have been harmed online and these parent survivors who are my heroes , that I work with on a daily basis that are really trying to make the world a better place for every single child out there , and then join our movement . Sign up to get more information about the work that we're doing in Congress to try to put some common sense safeguards in place to protect kids online .
Speaker 1I know that parents don't want to read these stories because they're hard and they're scary , but I always push parents into that because , like you , brian , who I've gotten to know over the years , you guys are good families . Yeah , and it happened to you . So I always tell parents like we can never say never in our home , and so awareness is key . We can't put our head in the sand and say that's too hard to even grasp that that happened . We have to get educated and look it in the face and deal with it Like that is just key . Yeah , absolutely . Well , thank you for being here and thank you for all the work that you do . Maureen , I know you tirelessly work on these laws and you testify and you're knocking on doors in DC and you're saying we need to talk about this and nobody ever knows the work that you have put into this , and so thank you for all the work that you do and just know that we are praying for you and cheering you on .
Speaker 2Thank you , mandy , it was a pleasure .
Speaker 3Next Talk is a 501c3 nonprofit keeping kids safe online . To support our work , make a donation at nexttalkorg . Next Talk resources are not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional , or to diagnose , treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical , psychological , legal , financial or other problem . You are advised to consult a qualified expert for your personal treatment plan .