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How do we keep our kids safe online? How do we protect our children in an overexposed, sexualized culture?
Join Mandy Majors (award-winning author of "TALK" and "Keeping Kids Safe in a Digital World") for real conversations about the intersection of tech, culture and faith.
nextTalk is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization keeping kids safe by creating a culture of open communication in families, churches and schools.
nextTalk
Body Image
Some of us grew up hearing toxic, negative comments about our weight and we may now think, “Don’t ever talk about your kid’s body!” We understand that logic, but we must be careful. We can’t ignore extreme weight loss/gain or any other body changes our kids may be experiencing. We sit down with a licensed professional counselor to discuss body changes, eating disorders, and so much more!
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are a nonprofit passionate about keeping kids safe online. We're learning together how to navigate tech, culture and faith with our kids. Today we are joined by Jamie Mershon. She is an amazing licensed professional counselor. She's partnered with us for years. I mean, I've sent so many kids and families to you, um and she is on our advisory council. She's, thankfully, I can text her when I have immediate you know, like, oh my gosh, this is happening. I need, I need some help here. Yeah, I need some help and direction, but Jamie's been great. If you haven't listened to some of her previous shows, like, we'll link them, especially the eating disorder, because we're going to get into that today and we did a previous show about that. But before we get into the topic at hand, why don't you tell us just about you?
Speaker 3:Absolutely Well. Thank you for having me. I'm always honored to be here, and a little bit about me is my journey started as an elementary school teacher. I taught first and third grade, and then God transitioned me into the school counseling world, and that was just a really incredible time in my life. And then, when I got married and started having babies, god took me out of that and put me in private practice, and he has just blown my mind of how he has grown my practice, um, and I have just been in the throes of it while building this practice of marriage and motherhood and all the things. And so it's really cool, though, to just, you know, look back and see all the different phases and how God got me here today. And yeah, and you have three kids, yes, three daughters. And so we were overachievers and decided we were going to have three kids in three and a half years, or God decided that I should say. And so, if you want somebody that's like humble and relatable and just you know, gets the crazy and messiness of life.
Speaker 3:I'm your gal, yeah, and those kids are young.
Speaker 1:I mean your oldest is late elementary school.
Speaker 3:Exactly, that's the oldest. That's the oldest, so you're the Uber, or second kinder? Yeah, I am the Uber.
Speaker 1:No one's driving. You're the school parties, you're it.
Speaker 3:Yes, and we're the kid house, and so, yeah, you're in the thick of it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love how God uses Jamie's experience as a mom, as a parent, and merges it with her um, her training and her expertise as a counselor, and I think it's a very invaluable thing, and so the more every time I'm with her I'm like, okay, that was a counseling session.
Speaker 3:When I just what you just said, that you are so sweet, Mandy. Well, I you know. As you know, I just take so much comfort into the scripture, Philippians one 6, right, and so how the Lord uses the couch and even in my own life I love that scripture because he started a good work in us and until our last breath, and we are home with Christ, we are not called to perfection, we are called to growth and there's a lot of peace in that. So that is always my goal of how the Lord uses the couch. It represents growth. How that scripture relates to my life. I'm not called to be the perfect mom or the perfect counselor and I'm not going to say everything perfect today, right, but we're growing and we're learning and that just is so comforting to my heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a great scripture, such a great scripture, and it's it's also like the tone of humility that we want to be with our kids.
Speaker 3:Like apologizing to our kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, Saying when we're wrong, understanding that we're not always going to get it right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I often say that I'm like, hey, we're a Philippians 1-6 family, yeah, right, like that doesn't just apply to kids that are learning and growing. That's I get it wrong so many times and yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. I mean, I know we have we posted something incorrect, we've said something on the podcast that didn't land the way I thought it would and I'm like, oh, that's not what we meant. But I understand how those people took it that way, absolutely. And so we're all the work in progress which leads me to. We want to talk about body image and eating disorders. But really, what led to this show today was I saw a post by a big account we follow, we recommend them all the time and they're really focused on talking to young kids about sex and they just have some really great practical one-liners. You know that they just throw at people. That's great and I love it. But they had a post recently that I was like, oh, I don't know about that, it got your attention and it wasn't that I was mad at them or upset or anything. I was just like, oh, from the work that I've done over the last decade and learning from you about, like, eating disorders, it was just like Whoa, whoa, whoa, what if we have a kid struggling with this? And so first of all, I want to read the post to you and then I want you to like give your hot take immediately and then let's dive into it a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this is the post. It says how to talk to your child about their body. Step one don't. Don't say anything if she's lost weight. Don't say anything if he's gained weight. If you think your daughter's body looks amazing, don't say that. Don't talk about your body. Don't talk about your diet. Don't talk about how many carbs you've had or how you wish you could eat those French fries but can't. And then it goes on and on. When I first saw it, I thought, oh, they do such good work and I followed them for so long. Probably the heart behind that was we grew up in a toxic environment about body image and they're trying to correct that. Correct, because we did. We grew up commenting on people's weight and all this stuff and it's like Whoa, we need to. We need to fix that. But what's your hot take Like? What do you immediately think about when I read that post?
Speaker 3:I think you know, we're all healing and growing and recovering, right, just from, maybe. When I say recovering, maybe just from the lies or things that in the past, it's like, oh, that could have been done better. And what I noticed is when people start healing, um, getting restored, recovering or even grasping healthier concepts, right, there's a level of a pendulum and it's swinging and so we kind of go extreme. So maybe it was the extreme of like there was so much focus on it and now we're at the other extreme, where that is saying don't talk about it at all. I think that's extreme too, right.
Speaker 3:But if you think about a cord just going side to side or a string, eventually it's going to land in the middle, it's going to calibrate and I think, as we're diving into these topics, everyone is going to find themselves somewhere in this pendulum and we want to find ourselves in the middle where it's healthy and it's balanced. So stay out of the extremes, because basically, when they say just don't talk about it at all, that's extreme and then uber focused, that's an extreme. So I think it's not all bad, not all good. We just have to find a healthier place to land, because these kids do want to talk about it, because something that I've always said we run off of beliefs more than we run off a reality, and kids are creating beliefs about their body, they're creating relationships with their body and they do want our input and they do want us to help them navigate their changing bodies and help them establish good, positive, you know, habits.
Speaker 1:I think that's the key for me. I think that's why it it rubbed me so wrong. It really did, because I was like, okay, first of all, no topic is off limits.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And my mind went to if you have a kid who you see significant weight gain or significant weight loss, like that's a conversation, it's not shaming. Of course we don't want anybody to be like, oh my gosh, you gained 50 pounds, what is up with you? Of course you don't say that. But like we have to notice what's going on in our kids' minds and in their narrative Right, like that's important to be able to connect with them.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly, and just being in tune. Because if you have a kid that's saying like, oh, I'm so hungry, I'm so hungry, and you make their favorite meal and they're not eating it, okay, what's that about? You hear them, they're hungry, they have food that you know they like and they're not eating, red flag. But that's being in tune. And so even just saying, hey, honey, like I've noticed, you're saying you're really hungry, I cooked your favorite meal. Can you help me understand? You know, because that could be a red flag to an eating disorder, right? If a child who's always saying I'm hungry or oh, I'll eat later, and they never eat later, or they're chewing lots of gum, drinking lots of water, right, so a lot of this is this entombment too, because what that post is saying just don't bring it up at all. Well, by not bringing it up, we could really be ignoring outcries or ignoring this child who is in the throes of something really dangerous.
Speaker 1:Well, and there was. You know, I commented and I was trying to be very kind, I wasn't trying to call them out at all. I mean we have people comment on our posts and call us out and we miss stuff. We miss angles or just thought processes, it's not conflict, it's just a conversation.
Speaker 3:Because they posted that probably well-meaning, and if we sat they'd probably have a different angle on it, right? But because we're not privy to that angle, we're just privy to that angle, we're just privy to what they put. That sounds extreme.
Speaker 1:Well, and what I was afraid is that parents would internalize it Cause I've seen this before with some of the things I've said, that I will make a blanket statement trying to over-correct how we grew up, and then it's like parents get the vibe of well, we can't ever do that.
Speaker 3:And I'm like.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's not really what I. I mean like I meant there's a, there's a middle ground, there's a balance with all of it.
Speaker 1:And so my fear, literally, was that parents would read that and if they had a kid with extreme weight loss, they wouldn't seek help, or they they would just sweep it under the rug, which is one of the things that at next talk like it's just a no-no for us, like we're not sweeping anything under the rug, we're bringing in things into the light, amen. But I totally agree that we have to do it in a healthy, very healthy way.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, as we were talking through this, one of the things you said and I think this is really important because, looking back all over the years, you know I have a girl and a boy and, um, I think sometimes like I would really not bring up body stuff unless they started- Sure. And I would see them to start to develop thoughts about their body. Yeah, my daughter and I tackled this on a previous show. I mean, she's really long legs, my husband's 6'4". I get that.
Speaker 3:Everybody in my house is tall but me. We are going to have some tall girls. Yes, I get that. Everybody knows I'm tall but me. We are going to have some tall girls. Yes, I get that. Everybody knows I'm tall but me.
Speaker 1:And she just was getting so frustrated about how skirts fit on her and clothing. Yeah, like it was her problem, like she's the problem, and I remember just saying, babe, like your legs are beautiful, like I know it feels like you're the problem, but it's really the clothing that's the problem.
Speaker 3:Exactly Like. I know it feels like you're the problem, but it's really the clothing that's the problem. It's really like Well, you corrected the narrative, you gave her a different way to look at it, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, but I think that if I had bought into the don't comment, because what if I say something wrong to see, then then she would have kept believing the narrative that her body was the problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, when I hear you say that, something that I think of in the counseling world is you know, we do a lot of work with the brain and earlier I said we run off of beliefs more than we run off of reality.
Speaker 3:And so this visual I'll use a lot is like imagine just a pasture with like tall grass right, and here's the barn and there's the water, and if a horse goes from barn to water, like one time, the grass is going to pop down and pop right back up, right, but imagine, like months and years, of this horse in this pasture going from barn to water, water to barn, barn to water, back and forth, right, like it's going to create a path. It is no longer just grass popping up and down, it is a deep rooted path and that's how God's designed our brain, is that we have neural pathways, and when we run off of those beliefs and we practice those beliefs, whether they're true or untrue, they're going to feel like reality. So we're creating these neural pathways, right, and a big one is we have to make sure that we're understanding the relationship our children have with their body. So, if the story, if the narrative, if the belief is, you know, I was created, you know, with long legs and the clothing industry, you know, is not favorable to my body, but I can run and I love my hair or what, like you know what I'm saying, though. Like, what is their conversation with themselves, right? Or is the conversation? You know, I hate these long legs. Like I wish I looked more like Sarah, um, you know, I just, oh, I just disgusted when I look in the mirror.
Speaker 3:Like years of that, right, that's a really negative relationship. That's why it's helpful to have these conversations, because you kind of get to understand what the relationship is with your child and their body. And sometimes we had to put the horse in a new pasture and it's like, okay, let's create a new pair, narrow pathway. What's the truer story or what's the correct story? Just like with your daughter, right Now, the legs aren't the problem, the clothing is the problem, and now you can focus on solutions that okay, maybe we just need to add extra fabric or find different stores that are meant for tall people or a certain brand. And so now you don't feel helpless, you shift it to okay, I'm just learning more about my body, my style and what works for my body type Exactly, and that's exactly what we did.
Speaker 1:But it became about not her. And I think that's really important, because if I had just felt like, well, we can't ever talk about your body or what you're struggling with or whatever, then cause I'm going to say something wrong or shameful that obviously I don't want to do, right, I don't want to make that mistake and if I do, apologize, obviously own it, but, um, but I think that I would have missed all of those conversations to redirect. Like you said, put the horse in a new pasture. Yeah, because that path was forming, that my body's the problem, yeah, and her body's not the problem. Her body's amazing. And so when I saw in that post, don't tell your body it's amazing, yeah, I'm like, well, not just randomly out of the blue, don't focus on the body, but in context, it is really important to tell your kid how amazing, they are.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And to highlight how they may be different from others, yes, exactly, and you know just.
Speaker 3:you know one thing you know having three girls, or, you know, praying over them, like I love how God designed you, like I love your eyes, I love your hair. You know, when we think about body, we often think of just weight. It's really creating a relationship with yourself. You know, lately, my little nine-year-old she's almost 10. She's really been into skincare and I love that right, because she gets to connect with her gender, of just you know, of getting all dolled up or taking care of herself. You know all that, all that fun stuff that we as girls like to do skincare, feeling pretty, you know. But one of the things that I pointed out is I love how you steward your body. You are so good at, you know, taking the time and cleaning your skin.
Speaker 3:You're really good about washing your hair and combing it and braiding it. I just love how you take such great care of your body, because if you think about a treasure, right, you're going to protect it, you're going to take care of it, and her body is her treasure, right, and she's being a good steward of it, and so it's. There's so many ways we can take care of our body other than our weight, and I just call them habits, right, like you have so many great habits, you know. And sometimes, if I, you know, hear kids talk about like, oh my, I don't like how I feel in my body. You know.
Speaker 3:Well, tell me all the really good habits you think that you do. You know they're like well, I drink a lot of water and you know I'm really good about getting enough sleep. Great, let's keep doing those things. What's something that we could add to your habits, you know? And sometimes they say, well, you know I could move more. Great, like, add that to the list, right, it doesn't have to be this like huge focus and catastrophize it, right, it's just a conversation.
Speaker 1:When you said in the very beginning of all those examples, you said when we think about body, we automatically go to weights, and I think that is the problem, because we've all been raised in that generation where we we have some scars from that. Yeah, and I think that is that was really what we're talking about here, because it's way more than just weight, our body. We're way more than what we weigh, what size we are.
Speaker 3:I think that's the lie, though, is our worth is connected either to performance or our worth is connected to weight. That can also often be the lie, right, our achievements and how we look, because that's all outward yeah, Right. What do you have to offer? Right, you know, and so I think it's really important that we understand. Yeah, there's so many parts to it other than just a weight.
Speaker 1:So okay, so as a, as a counselor, I mean you see kids with eating disorders, you treat them, say we have a parent at home and they haven't noticed extreme weight loss or weight gain and haven't noticed extreme weight loss or weight gain and they haven't. The kid is not sharing it with the parents. Okay, so we don't have an end to start talking about it. So it is kind of awkward to just bring it up. Sure, what is your best piece of advice for parents in that situation?
Speaker 3:I mean, obviously the goal is always to be in tune with our children, right? Well, in there's a level of studying them, like kind of what I said earlier. Like they're saying they're hungry and they're not eating. It could just be as simple as help me understand. Hey, I've just noticed you've been saying you're hungry a lot and I'm making dinner, but you're not eating. Can you help me understand what's going on with that?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Cause sometimes they don't know how to advocate. They really want somebody to notice I'm not well. So it's this like one foot in the dark and one foot, please help me. Yeah, Right, Cause normally it starts with both feet in the dark and then it starts getting to this place where it's kind of scary, right when they're like Ooh, this is getting slippery slope. It's really just kind of not, because oftentimes we may, you know, come across as accusatory.
Speaker 3:I think help me understand is just a really good. Keep the walls down, right, Like where somebody doesn't get defensive. Or hey, I'm confused about this, right, You're, you're seeking understanding, You're not accusing or anything. Or you know what I have been noticing, um, you know you're eating in your room, more you know, and you're not out here with a family, you know is something going on or has something shifted, you know. And so that tells that child like, oh, my mom's noticing, she sees me, she can tell that something's off.
Speaker 3:And so I think oftentimes we do have to push in, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't create that child to be defensive or feel like we're coming after them or that they're in trouble. Yeah, but we also have to be willing to go to that hard place too. If they're pretty dug in and they're like I'm fine, Nothing's wrong, we have to be ready to, um, you know, have those hard conversations of you know what? I've actually been outside the bathroom door and I've been hearing you throw up, or I've been noticing you stuffing food in napkins, Like there comes to a place where we just have to call it what it is, because that's loving.
Speaker 1:I love this because, you know, in the comments of course I chimed in with what about eating disorders and all of that? But but what was really amazing was people were sharing their stories, their vulnerable stories, and you know, one person chimed in. I didn't know who she was, but but she said I'm. You know. I'm glad you said this because I suffered with an eating disorder and nobody spoke up for me. Yeah, and it was almost like she. I'm not, I don't want to speak for her, but but what I interpreted that was like she didn't feel seen and she was struggling and nobody advocated for her.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I think that's where we have to be super careful telling parents, like, don't talk about that or don't do that because we do internalize that and it's off limits somehow. Even if it's in a general context of our parents screwed this up. We have to be very careful with this topic and eating disorders look different.
Speaker 3:Right Like anorexia and bulimia used to be the go-tos, right Now it's orthorexia, where kids are getting praised. It's extreme clean eating. I only eat organic, I only eat salads, right, and so you see them eating.
Speaker 1:And that's people don't think of that as an eating disorder.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:Dive into that a little bit more for me.
Speaker 2:Because, sometimes we're like oh that's a healthy habit Right.
Speaker 1:But when does it?
Speaker 3:become extreme Right, and I think it's just, you know, when it becomes very restrictive right. Like obviously there's more medical things going on, like gluten and celiac, like there's more awareness around that stuff. So some people truly like that is medically how they need to have their diet Right. But then there's the other extreme too, where, yeah, it's extreme eating. Like you know, I'm not going to eat the cake, or I won't eat anything if it's not organic, or you know, I'm really good about just eating this protein. There's so many different diets out there too.
Speaker 3:And so for growing kids, like I do think there is a fine line of not there's just education, I think there's just education to how you need to educate your kids. Like there's not good foods and bad foods, right. Too much of anything is not good, Right. And so kind of teaching kids to be in tune with their body, right, we eat when we're hungry. We stop when we're full, because, you know, another eating disorder is just binge eating, where kids are overeating and we've seen the pendulum swing. On the other word, like all bodies are acceptable, which for somebody who has struggled with weight, like yeah, I am glad that sizes look different than they did when I was a kid Cause I remember having to shop like in the guy section.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it is still one of those things where I think that we have to educate our children on what healthy habits look like and what a healthy relationship looks like with food. So sometimes it starts with us, because we don't have a good relationship with our body and our food habits, and other times it comes to we're so scared that we're like but if I say this, are they going to think I'm shaming them? And so I think it's just really being mindful and discerning on how to have those conversations. But just in general, so if you have one kid who's really struggling, you know we're going to maybe just change what family dinners look like. We're not going to focus on that, just one child. It's like hey, guys, like I tried this new recipe, or we're going to start family walks or whatever it looks like. There's just ways that we can just incorporate healthy habits to maybe not single one person out, but just as a family like, yeah, we should be more mindful or have conversations.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think too, we see a lot in this generation like they're just rotting on their phones all the time, Exactly, and so you know a lot of the unhealthy stuff. Sometimes it's just about moving and it's not really anything to do with your body. This is about your mind too, and having those you know and like, if you're up rotting, scrolling on your phone all night, you're, you're probably not going to be at your healthiest mentally, physically, anything Exactly and so attack it from the street.
Speaker 3:Logical, right. This isn't like emotional, this isn't attackable, like take all emotions out of it, right? What kid do you think is going to feel better? You know one that went to bed at a decent time, that you know. Not even comparison, but just look at it logically, right, like a child who's up till two in the morning on a screen and they've been on the screen since they got out of school Like, obviously that child is not going to feel his best, compared to a child who you know, played outside for a bit, did their homework, ate dinner, had appropriate screen time, but at a different time. There's just a better way sometimes and it doesn't have to be personal there's just a better way sometimes.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't have to be personal. There is just a better way sometimes, you know. Just going back to what you said about the, the eating disorder, what did you call it? Orthorexia, orthorexia. Yeah so that is like healthy eating total yes.
Speaker 3:I think people working out is connected to that too. So you're working out, it's just ultra healthy, but again it's that extreme. And I think that is such a good point there, because it's good, that's good that you're doing that and you're getting praised on self-control and you're getting praised on those habits.
Speaker 1:And oh, my word, you look great You're disciplined? Yes, you're disciplined, but it can come to a point where you spend more time counting calories and looking at labels than you do living your life, and that's when it gets kind of off balance.
Speaker 3:And I think what we have to be careful here is nobody wakes up and says I'm going to start eating disorder today it's a nine out of 10.
Speaker 3:It starts with good intentions. Just let me change things up. And then it gets extreme, right, because people say start noticing like, oh, you've lost weight, looks so great. Well, how did I look before? I lost weight? Right? People are noticing me now more, but they didn't comment like that before. So it starts to mess with your mind and that's why we have to. That talking is so important, right, and just helping anytime, like our kids are saying you know, if you do have a child that's overweight and they're in an unhealthy situation and they say I really need to work on being more healthy, right, they're coming to you.
Speaker 3:Just be mindful, as you start getting healthy, right, that you're having the correct conversations and you're monitoring it because lots of times something like I said starts off well-meaning and really good, because there are kids who get to a place where they're like, you know what, I don't feel good in my body, and that's them being in tune, and that's not a bad thing, yeah, but we just have to help them walk through. What does healthy weight loss look like?
Speaker 1:Well, and that goes back to taking care of a treasure your body is a temple, like managing and stewarding that well. I think are all really good conversations. I also just want to point out, you know, I mean I'm guilty of this. I think of eating disorders, I think of girls, and I think it's normal. I mean, most of the girls are suffering from eating disorders.
Speaker 1:But you know, I'm raising a boy, teen boy he's an athlete and it's constantly more protein, more calories, more whatever. And again I'm talking to him about hey, you're able to eat 5,000 calories right now because you've got a lot of energy that you're burning and muscle that you're going, but you can't eat 5,000 calories when you're my age. Yes, but like you can't eat 5,000 calories when you're my age, and like I will say to him if I ate 5,000 calories I would be really overweight, and not in good health, like not, not even so, not worried about my body, not in good health.
Speaker 1:And so you know, maybe that's right, maybe that's wrong, but I really take an open door approach to that because I don't want him to think this is his habit for the rest of his life. You can't eat 5,000 calories for the rest of your life, and it's not anything about his body. I feel like it's more like scientific biological To me.
Speaker 3:what pops into my head? That's just education. I'm just understanding, like when you're an athlete, this is what you need.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, and when you're not, it's going to look different, and so you're not. It doesn't sound like you're putting this huge emphasis on it, but it was definitely a conversation, so it's not this repeated thing like every day.
Speaker 1:Hey, just remember, I think we talked about it once, for 10 minutes Exactly.
Speaker 3:Right, and so I think it's like when kids hear things like over and over, it's like, oh, like that's starting that neural pathway.
Speaker 1:That's the problem with the body is shaming.
Speaker 3:Right, but if it's more just an educational piece and it's just a good conversation.
Speaker 1:I think that is very healthy, yeah. And then we move on Right and don't dwell on it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Don't nag your kid about their weight, don't you know? Of course, my daughter said something on one of the recent shows. She said shame is not a good tactic for anything.
Speaker 1:And that has stuck in my mind and I think parents, sometimes we feel like we can shame our kids into something Absolutely Even. I see that a lot with, like non-disciplined kids or kids that are struggling in school. Well, you know, I'm just going to put the hammer down and they're not going to have this, this and this until they get all A's. Well, I don't know if that's the approach. Maybe talk about why are you struggling?
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Why do you think you're struggling in school? I mean, it could be something that they're struggling with. With their eyes, they can't see something right. It could be an attention Completely.
Speaker 3:I mean, it could be lots of different things. Right, and I think that just goes back to being in tune, right, because the kids learn like oh, you'd like me when I'm a red car, I'll pretend I'm a red car, right, that doesn't change anything about the car, you just put new paint on it.
Speaker 1:And so I think you want to love you.
Speaker 3:No matter what Right Exactly Like we'll work through it. Yeah, so I think it's. It's being a safe person. I think because, like these are just this is the tale as old as time, right, weight relationships with bodies right, we've seen it go so many different cycles and it really just comes down to relational Like moms and daughters, sons, moms, dads, sons, all of it Like these are just this is a normal part of life to have these conversations. Food is such a huge part of our life. Yeah, we got to shop for it. We got our life. Yeah, we got to shop for it. We got to put it away. We got to cook it. We got to clean up from it. It's around so many things. So, like it should not be a taboo thing. We just just like we should have a healthy relationship with food. We should also have a healthy relationship having conversations around it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. I want to ask you one more thing. Tell me, as a counselor, you think, mandy, you're right, you're not right, or?
Speaker 1:you know, maybe I'm both maybe I'm both. So you've got a kid going through puberty and either they're going through at a high rate of speed, like faster than everybody else, or they're very delighted, and each kid's going to be different on that, even in your own family, and so if you see your kid when I was walking through all that, it's not something that I would constantly point out or anything like that, but if my kids started to talk about it, well, this person has this and I don't or they have that and they're getting noticed and I don't Again.
Speaker 1:Those were the conversations that I would sweep in and be like okay, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you. Yeah, everybody's going through puberty and each person is different and they mature at different times.
Speaker 2:Love that.
Speaker 1:So just because you're not maturing right now like all of these people, that doesn't mean anything is wrong with you Absolutely, you have to trust God's timing on that, right, exactly, and also how he's designed you there.
Speaker 3:They trust God's timing on them, right, exactly, and also how he's designed you. There are just going to be certain things we can't change. Like you know, your daughter's tall, my daughters are going to be tall Like I'm 5'11", my husband's 6'8". Sorry, genetics. Like this is your reality, right, yeah. And so there's a level of you're right, like they can't change their height, and how you get proportioned and how you go through puberty and where you put on weight and where you don't. Right. There is a level of not comparing but also just accepting. This is my journey with my body right.
Speaker 3:Accepting yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes exactly and honestly, jamie I think this also goes into, like kids who struggle with their gender there's there's, there's a, there's an acceptance there of you may feel these qualities and you can have those qualities. I mean, it's cool if you're a dude and you love baking, you know pink or whatever the stereotypical boxes that we put people in, but it's almost like this. We we've gotten into the habit of not loving ourself the way we are If we're big bones if we're if we're tall if we're
Speaker 1:whatever color hair we have we, we live in this like drive through society where if I don't like my eyes, I change them. If I don't like my hair, I change them. If I don't like this, I'm going to change them.
Speaker 3:You know you use that word earlier shame. And I think that is such a powerful tool of the enemy because anytime you look at addiction or change, what I always say is let's just go with the need disorder, right, that's. That's an addiction, right? It's not the problem, it's the solution. And essentially, is you feel shame, so you want to get as far away from yourself as possible. So how do we get far away as possible? I'm going to transform myself, I'm going to look different, I'm going to get drunk, I'm going to get high it's anything that takes you away from your shame, right. And so an addiction or gender confusion, all that right. Oftentimes it is not the problem, it's the solution To a deeper problem.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, like maybe some so unresolved trauma, or I'm numbing myself for this, or or I just don't like who I am and the narrative is going on in the brain that you are not. You are not enough.
Speaker 3:And I mean, that's what it is. You are not enough, Absolutely, and we also just have to really look. Even this could be a whole different podcast with, like, just you know, going back to the eating disorders, but like, let's not overlook any level of trauma either, because trauma and eating disorders go hand in hand, and so that's, that's a deeper question, right, um, it could be the society we live in, right? Where then, is you know, um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1:You know my worst accepted yeah, or it's just kind of like it's praised, I guess. Right, right, idolized, that's the word.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. So when we idolize stuff right, sometimes it truly is like we want to become that because it's like, oh, that's idolized, right. But sometimes it's rooted in something deeper. So we want to be really prayerful that we're not overlooking something, because sometimes it can be, or we want to go to something that's idolized, or sometimes it's. We're working through a traumatic experience and it's manifesting through an eating disorder.
Speaker 1:So good, so good. There's so much to unpack here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else that you would want to say on the topic of? I mean, I know we can go deeper into trauma- and eating disorders, but on this show, like just this general show, body image or eating disorders, anything you want to throw out there to parents.
Speaker 3:I really think, just you know, we've covered an array of different things right, which I think is good, because just I think everyone there's a takeaway in here for everyone, and I think we've touched on a lot of things that kids are dealing with, and so my takeaway is just have conversations about it, just like we're doing right now.
Speaker 1:Healthy healthy. Non-shaming, non judgmental.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Don't call out your kid's weight, obviously, but talk about their bodies.
Speaker 3:Yeah, talk about their bodies and make sure that you're in a place to them. So this may be prompting somebody to say, okay, what, if? What have I projected? What have I modeled? Or why do I feel uncomfortable listening to this? Or even if we're kind of like judgy or walling up, like I don't agree with that, right, sometimes it's because it's it's hitting a tender point with us or an on heel point. So I would even just encourage listeners to really take a deep dive into their own relationship with their body and their history with food.
Speaker 1:Look in the mirror.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Look in the mirror and we spill that over to our kids, not realizing it completely. And that's where it gets so toxic, yes, so toxic, and I think that was probably in the intent of the original host for sure, but I'm glad we were able to dive into it. I'm glad you came on the show because I just from a licensed professional counselor and a mama girl mom, you're juggling all this too and I think that it was a really helpful insight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I'm on the journey.
Speaker 1:I'm on it with y'all, like yes, and I feel like every mom I mean I don't want to speak for dads, but I feel like every mom has a body journey, Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean, we've had babies.
Speaker 1:I'm in now, you know, menopause, which is a whole other beast to manage on how my body is changing, right and medical stuff yeah. Yeah, but I'm even talking to my daughter. She's getting ready to be 21. I'm even talking to her about what I'm going through with menopause. Yeah, just in the sense of not complaining or not, you know, making fun of myself. But like, this is an ongoing journey of getting to know myself.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And loving me, no matter what.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you're just showing her vulnerability and you're showing her that, like, this isn't a taboo subject, right, you're just normalizing it Our bodies are going to change over time and we need to talk about it Amen.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks for being here, jamie. Thanks for having me.
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