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How do we keep our kids safe online? How do we protect our children in an overexposed, sexualized culture?
Join Mandy Majors (award-winning author of "TALK" and "Keeping Kids Safe in a Digital World") for real conversations about the intersection of tech, culture and faith.
nextTalk is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization keeping kids safe by creating a culture of open communication in families, churches and schools.
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Parenting through Grief
Brian Montgomery lost his 16-year-old son and then was diagnosed with cancer. Each day, he still gets up and keeps going. How does he do it? If you are struggling – we hope this show will be helpful to you.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world. We are joined today by Brian Montgomery so glad to have him back on the podcast. Many of you know him and his story, brian. I'm going to let you take a minute, though, to introduce yourself for any of our new listeners who may not know how we met and why you're here, really, what your story is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, sure, we appreciate you having us again. And the way this relationship started was the loss of our son, walker. Walker was a victim of sextortion on December 1st of 2022 and took his own life and right away, we had no idea why Walker would do this. I mean, we're just a normal family and Walker had a great social life, had no suicidal tendencies, and we were just at a loss. Um, and we just we were just at a loss.
Speaker 2:And once we I don't know it was probably eight weeks after learning of what happened to Walker, um, over eight weeks after, after he passed away, we learned what happened and what, and you know what the circumstances were that caused him to think he needed to do that.
Speaker 2:And, and, um, you know we started. We had an interview on Fox news and that the word started to spread that we were talking about it and you guys contacted us about doing a podcast and you were one of the first podcasts that we did. That I did and it was. I mean, it was a great asset for our family Number one that your listeners and your Next Talk team was right there with us, comforting us and praying for us and gave us a platform to share that message because we knew how important that was to get out. And so we over the last two years going on two years we've been on multiple times and talked about different topics and we just appreciate the Next Talk listeners and all of your staff and of course you, mandy and Kim, for you know, helping us through this phase of our life. So that's kind of what happened.
Speaker 1:Well, and we'll link the podcast, that original podcast, with you so if people don't know your story they can go listen to that. But it was a sextortion. We had worked a lot of sextortion cases at Next Talk but a lot of them were over a week's, month's periods of blackmail. You know I have this picture of you. If you don't do this, send me this money, that kind of thing. And it always gave the kids time to think it through and process it and try and seek help. And with Walker, the Predators got super smart on how to put these kids in a corner and panic and we had never seen anything like it Just a couple hours between the extortion scheme started and then we lost Walker.
Speaker 2:A couple hours.
Speaker 1:And I guess we know all this because of the FBI and their investigation and going through the phone. That's how you found out what actually happened, but it was something we had never seen before and it really shifted to with him not having any mental health issues, any red flags. It's like you also have to shift as a parent, not only how you think about sextortion but how you think about suicide, because we're losing kids with none of the traditional red flag mental health issues to these schemes, and so at next talk, we really wanted to shine a light on that and you were so brave to come on and after you shared your story, so many families contacted us that this same scheme had happened to their kids, and so that was. I thought this was a rare situation. It took me off guard that we had so many people contacting us.
Speaker 1:But now you you know you've walked through a cancer diagnosis, but you also travel and you speak and you share Walker's story. You've been in DC working on the kids online safety act. You've been trying to raise awareness in all these different areas. Also, you have for our listeners who don't know you, you're married to sweet Courtney and you have three other children also Walker and three other children correct.
Speaker 2:Courtney and I were married. We've been married, like I said, 25, 26 years and just a fairytale marriage. We have a great relationship With Walker. We have four kids, two boys and two girls, and so, after losing Walker, of course you know it's been a, it's a new life for all of us, and our kids have been at the center of that as well. You know trying to be, continue to be, you know, parents to them and lead them in a way that's godly, in a way that's going to prepare them for their futures. So it's been a challenge. And then to compound that, like you said, a cancer diagnosis in September of 23,. It's just been quite a journey, but we know that God's got a plan for this. We know that he's using it to affect others, something that we could not have done on our own, or without these hardships we couldn't have done. So, on one hand, we're thankful, but we're careful to say how thankful we are, because we need a little relief.
Speaker 1:Well, and I want to talk about that today Parenting through grief, pain, trauma. You guys have been through it all. You've lost a child, and then the health situation and, um, you know the thought that comes to mind when I see you and you're still speaking and you're still raising awareness and, you know, fighting for new laws. Um, the thing that I always think is, you know, he he's just such a good dad in a leader in the household to keep going and he keeps going for his wife and his kids. But tell me about that, what does keep you going, Brian? Because from the outside, looking in, that's my perception of you. But tell me what keeps you going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's 100% our faith. I mean Courtney and I both have talked about it over and over again 100% our faith. I mean Courtney and I both have talked about it over and over again and just continue to try to encourage one another. That you know, I can't be the dad I need to be, or the husband I need to be for Courtney or for my kids, and I can't. If you look at life through a temporal perspective, you know all these catastrophes would overtake you, because it's you know. If you just think about life as you're born and you live a life and you accomplish things and you have relationships, and then you die and it's over, well then that perspective I can't relate to how you can keep going in circumstances like these, and so that's obviously not our perspective.
Speaker 2:Our perspective is from an eternal standpoint and we believe that we'll see Walker again.
Speaker 2:We believe that this life is a very minimal part of eternity, that God has prepared a place for us, just like he promised us in his word that he would, and that Walker is in that place right now.
Speaker 2:Place for us, just like he promised us in his word that he would, and that Walker is in that place right now, um, and that we're, uh, we're, we're. Our job here is to help enlarge that kingdom and um, and so you know how that, how we do that is is different for everybody, but, uh, we're confident that the circumstances God has brought us through is is has been a a process of process of sharpening our sword for this battle that we're in in life. And I think that you know that's not a fun perspective sometimes. I mean, it's more fun to think about the football game on the weekend or, you know, the baseball tournament or whatever the things that we all have going on, and those things are fun. But God has a plan for us to truly carry on a spiritual battle here on this earth and that perspective is what keeps us moving in the right direction, I believe.
Speaker 1:Your faith is so strong and I hear that in you Was there a time that you questioned or you wavered in your flesh of why? Why does this have to happen to us Like I? Can you speak into that?
Speaker 2:You know there's glimpses of that all the time. I mean there's a daily, there's a daily fight to to recenter on that promise. Uh, daily I mean that, and sometimes that can be hourly. I mean it really just depends on the circumstances of life. But you know, I tell people sometimes we don't have these conversations, quite often because it's pretty difficult.
Speaker 2:But you know, the night that would have been within the first 24 hours of Lizzie Walker, I mean we were dark, really dark place, and so, um, you know that that was a time where you know lots of questions about our faith, lots of questions about eternity, lots of questions about why us, why Walker, um, but God didn't leave us there and and that's, I think that's that's the um, that's the God we serve.
Speaker 2:I mean he, he is not going to leave us in a place anywhere. He hadn't left us. Then I think that that was a point where God was asking do you believe what you say? You believe and I say that often is we? You know, we say we believe in eternity, we say we believe that Christ is the center of everything that we do, and you know how we behave and how we react, and the things we say and do are a reflection of what we believe and you know that point in life where we were, I'll say where I was um. You know that first, 24 hours after losing Walker was um. Is is close to what I think hell would be like, as I can imagine.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that. Um, it's almost like hard to move past that. Because it's like hard to move past that, because it's like it's such a moment I mean I can't, yeah. And and here you are, um, being strong and doing all these things, and I see that the inner strength comes from somebody power more powerful than you, and I think that's that's the. The cool thing that I see is is is God, you having that foundation of God being able to carry you through the darkest of moments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I want to encourage because I think that's the goal of this conversation you and I are having is that parent that's out there that's living in this grief. You know, I don't want to think about it as grief. I want to think about it as there's a period of time where I miss Walker. I mean that's what it is. I miss him. And even though I miss him, though, I know that he's safe, I mean he's well taken care of. But I don't think, if you're a parent that doesn't share this faith that we are blessed with, you can have that perspective. I think you've got to acknowledge and I had to acknowledge it, I had to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2:Even in that night I was describing that how am I behaving here? I'm behaving as if I don't believe this. How am I behaving here? I'm behaving as if I don't believe this, and it was such a confusion of emotions and thoughts and ideas. And I've said before, in this spiritual battle, satan is sitting there feeding you with lies, the same lies he fed Walker. And that person, that parent out there, or sibling, or whoever that's experienced this extensive loss and is having to walk through grief, if you don't have that faith to latch on to.
Speaker 2:I don't see how it's doable. I've said this before I don't want people to see us as a victim. I don't see ourselves as victims. Sometimes you can get that mentality, but I don't see ourselves as victims. Sometimes you can get that mentality, but I don't see ourselves as victims.
Speaker 2:I see us as victims, I see us as warriors in a battle. And this war, this battle, is hard. It comes with casualties, it comes with injuries, it comes with all kinds of risk, but fortunately, the person in Christ that is leading us through this battle has all the power and has all the ability to see us through it. And and um, I've got to latch onto that and I have to latch onto that daily, uh, intentionally, um, and without that I just, I just don't know how. I don't know how you can move forward, and I know there's a lot of parents that I've encountered that are not Christians, and I'm not. I'm not saying that from a judgmental perspective, but to be functional as a real causal agent, especially when you start thinking about it from an eternal standpoint and affecting the kingdom. That's how we move forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that reminds me of the Bible verse that we will face trouble in this world. We will 100%. We weren't promised that everything is going to be great. In fact, following Jesus is going to be harder than not right Because of the persecution and the troubles that will come our way. I think for our listeners out there who may not have a relationship with Jesus, I think what I want to do is like just give them hope that that that that it's available to you, like you could like you can pray to receive Jesus.
Speaker 1:If you've been mad at him, if you've blamed it he, that's fine because that's our flag. That's normal processing, Don't you think I mean? What would you say to that person out there that is like I don't have a relationship with Jesus, I'm mad at Jesus because he took my kid. I'm done. What would you say to that person if you were having coffee with them right now?
Speaker 2:God has the infinite ability to forgive and forget. I mean, that's what he's all about, is forgiveness. That's his absolute core, and where that originates from is his ability to love unconditionally, and that's where that originates from, is his ability to love unconditionally and that's where that originates from God. That's who he is. I mean, he created us out of love, he directs us out of love, he sets his commandments out of love. All those, everything that originates from God's character. Despite what some people in our culture would try to point to, god is love, and so that allows him to forgive us for whatever we've done, and he was tempted at all points, just as we are. So there's nothing that we've done, nothing that we've encountered, no feeling that we've had that he didn't have whenever he was walking on this earth, and I think that's for a purpose. That purpose was to show us that, brian, you're not alone in this. I know right where you're at. I know exactly where you're at and where I've.
Speaker 2:You know, the story that comes to mind often is, you know, with Christ and with Jesus and Lazarus.
Speaker 2:You know Lazarus was a really important person to Jesus and you know Jesus knew what was going to happen.
Speaker 2:I mean, the story was that they came to Jesus and told him that you know, lazarus is sick, and these are people that are really important to Jesus personally as he lived on this earth and so, basically, jesus delayed and allowed Lazarus to die, and when he gets there, he knew that he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead. This was not something that was a revelation to him, but he still wept. Why did he weep? It wasn't because he didn't think he was going to see Lazarus again, because he saw the pain that the people around him had to experience for this point to be made of the power that he held. And so I just as that parent is, you know, and I see that for myself is I think that Jesus looks at me and says Brian, I'm sorry, but this is something you got to contend with. I mean I, but it's not. It's not forever. You know it's not forever and I know how you feel, because I cried too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 1:the promise of scripture is not that we, that we're going to avoid pain, but but that he'll be with us, that he'll carry us through the pain, that he won't ever leave us in the in the darkest of moments, or whatever we're walking through or whatever questions we have, he won't leave us, and I think that is just the true peace that surpasses all understanding that we talk about with scripture, that we see in you. You've gone through all of this stuff and there's a peace and a stability in you even still, and that's the God in you.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I've said this before too. And that's the God in you yeah Well, I've said this before too. And a lot of the things we talk about here are things that I aspire to do and aspire to be. I don't have it figured out. This is a daily struggle. It's kind of like knowing the answer, but knowing the answer is just part of it.
Speaker 2:Knowing how to behave, knowing how to think, knowing how to feel that doesn't change where those real feelings come from and how things get sidetracked. I think about, I want the world, the life we had before. Any of this is what I want, that's what my flesh wants and that's what my family wants. I think that's a perfectly natural desire, but God continually reminds me that, brian, that's what you want, but that is an earthly desire, and what I want you to want is to impact my kingdom, because you have a phenomenal opportunity to do that, and it's hard to think of these circumstances as opportunities, but when you look at everybody that Christ used, that God used throughout the scripture, he used them in difficult circumstances and they had to go through those difficult circumstances to be usable by God, and so he reminds me of that often.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that's why our audience and just us at Next Talk, it's just been a you know, we relate to you so much. It's that I know the answer, but I'm a work in progress, cause we that's kind of been our philosophy this whole time of parenting a phone, of keeping kids safe online. It's all an experiment. Nobody really can be called an expert on this. We're the first generation, right, and so that's one of the things that next talk that we've always said is we're learning, we're telling you what as we learn, but but it's a process. It's a process here and I think, as you have processed your grief, that's that's the same. Um, you know way you've approached it too. I mean, I know the answer, I know who, who's in charge, but but this is a fleshly process of walking through this.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine you know cause you're processing your pain, you're helping your wife process her pain and you've got three kids processing that they lost their brother. And also, I guess the mom in me just feels like this is such a shocking thing that happened to Walker. I mean, it was such a shocking thing back then. Nobody had really ever heard of it back then at this timeframe and it was a. It was a new whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. To me in my mom brain I would have been, like become so overprotective of my kids I wouldn't want them to leave the house. I would have thrown away all the phones, like like, tell us how. What? Your response to all of that, just on a normal parenting journey of I've got three kids, that I'm, that I'm still parenting every day, and how you didn't swing the pendulum so far in in being afraid, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's and that's a. You know, that is, that tendency is absolutely there, because, but, but I, you know, I think that, but I think that there's two points I would make relative to that. One is we can't—I mean, you said right at the end you're afraid and we can't be driven out of fear. Our actions can't be driven based on fear. Our actions can't be driven based on fear, and I think that's that's a, that's a clear directive in scripture, that that, um, we should not fear and that God is in control and that our fear, um, you know and I'm not saying that we, that we shouldn't fear because of our own abilities, but we've got to not fear because of his abilities, and so, um, we can't, I can't and Courtney can't, parent out of fear of what happened to Walker, you know, overreact to those, to our other kids and the other side. The other point is balance. You know, are there more restrictions now than there were before? Sure, yeah, absolutely. I mean there's things I didn't know. I mean there's things that I didn't understand. There's the seriousness of the world we live in, you know, has completely changed and for us to just act like things are just like they always have would be irresponsible. And that balance and how we approach discipline, how we approach the things that we want to protect our kids from, is what we've done there, and it's certainly not perfect, because I can see the look on people's eyes.
Speaker 2:I've been in a lot of different meetings. They say, well, do your kids still have social media? Well, bennett does not. Bennett's just turned 15. Probably fixing to have to cross that bridge with him I was freeing into. Everybody has some connection to social media. Sarah is 13. She does not. Our 20-year-old, of course, she's grown, you know, and she came through before any of this even happened. So we've got some work to do on all of those.
Speaker 2:But what I tell parents number one is if we think that we're going to just, you know, completely take it away from our kids, number one we're going to set them at a really severe disadvantage competitively in the society we live in. Communication is going to be conducted through tech. I mean, we can like it or not, that horse is out of the stable. It's going to be conducted through tech. I mean, we can like it or not, that horse is out of the stable, it's going to happen. And so, if I know, that danger is still going to be there when they turn 18, I need to start.
Speaker 2:I mean, just, there's all kinds of things we educate as parents, we want to put into our educational planning. To educate our parents I mean our kids about whether it was drugs or alcohol or, you know, premarital sex or you fill in the blank all those things that we need to be educating, you know about. This is one of those, and it's going to be here and us thinking that we can just, you know, exclude it from our lives, I think is number one. It's going to create a lot of division in our family. We're just going to not, we're not going to parent based on fear, and we're going to continue to be vigilant, but we're going to continue to love our kids and try to educate them. I think that's the end of the day. They've got to understand that there's things here that are dangerous.
Speaker 1:Was there ever a moment where you were like, let's just go dark and not talk about this and we don't want to put it out there and let's protect our kids? I mean, I could see the draw of that, even though I feel like God commands us to bring things into the light because we can't address things we don't know. But was there ever a moment or a temptation to be like let's just not talk about this anymore?
Speaker 2:Not really moment, or a temptation to be like let's just not talk about this anymore. Not really. I mean, you know, I guess that's probably part of why we're in this situation, just from a standpoint of who we are and who you know, what our, what my personality is like, you know? I mean, I, I really, uh, that's that's. I'm a straightforward, always been that way. Just try to try to be as transparent as possible. I think we can avoid a lot of problems that way, and pretending something didn't happen doesn't make it not happen.
Speaker 2:And I also felt the need to, even though Walker did what he did, I felt the need to defend Walker in terms of how this happened. I mean, I think, you know, had there been no communication, it would have left a lot to question about. You know who we are as parents, what kind of family we are, what kind of person Walker was. We knew that that was not the case. We knew who Walker was, we knew his character, we knew his personality, we knew all that about him and I think I felt some need to defend that that Walker was victimized. Walker fell victim to a, you know, a scheme and somebody that was a predator. Have we gotten? Have there been times where we were tired of talking about it? Yes, absolutely there's.
Speaker 2:There's been times where it's just like I just I'm just I'm just tired. You know, I'm tired of this being the central focus of our family and and we've tried really hard to not let this be you know everything, you know our kids, you know, for our other kids, I mean I could see where that could be. It could become resentful, you know. Uh, they could, they could, they could start to resent this as being the change you know, because I mean they're still teenagers, right, I mean they're they, and I could see where kids could get there, but fortunately they, they haven't, and they have encouraged us to continue this fight, and I also think it's prepared them for being better citizens. I think that better people, you know, I think they're going to be, they're going to see how to handle adversity better than most, and so I think it's, I think, as hard as it's been, I think it's going to be a good attribute to their personalities.
Speaker 1:You, know, walking through fire. It develops character, it develops perseverance and strength, and you guys have all had to walk through fire. I think that's another reason, too, though, why we were so intrigued with your story and wanted to have you on right away once we got to know you was, was Walker's character, and and the fact that these predators and we've traced it back to other cases they target the good kids, because the good kids have a lot to lose, and so they target people on social media that have it all together, that have the wonderful family that is in the Christian home. I grew up thinking we go to church, we pray. You know we talk about being a good person. It's fine, and you know that's one of my main messages at Next Talk is like the good kids are becoming victims of all of this stuff online, because we have to go the extra step of raising the awareness about the online dangers and the conversations about that, and we have to know what's going on in their culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know. I would say that you know, relative to what Walker, what happened to Walker with sextortion. I think you're spot on. I mean, that's exactly right. What's interesting, though, is the predators. You know they, they, they find a way to, they find a weakness in whoever they can manipulate, and so the kids that are more prone to, you know, whether it's drugs with fentanyl poisoning, whether it's, you know, the kid that maybe is not as confident as, say, a walker was, you know they, they may bully. You know there's all kinds of these different things that that we're having to encounter now and um, and so they're all, they're all at risk.
Speaker 2:And you know, I, relative to to the Christian community, you know, I think that many times we've got our, we've got our head in the sand about some things. You know, I was, um, I remember a church I was speaking at, and, you know, usually I'll have a time at the end where I'll just answer questions, and uh, I'll never forget this. There was a guy in the audience and, um, he was, uh, you know, uh, I would say, you know, early seventies kind of guy. Um struck you as a very fundamentalist type believer and struck you as a very fundamentalist type believer and his question was Brian, do you think that if you would have done more Bible studies and I mean it's not exactly how he said it, but his implication was if you'd have been a better leader in terms of spiritual leader for Walker, would that have prevented this? And you know what I and I can. You know, on one hand, it really it really set me back and I didn't want to make a scene in the audience. But you know, I've thought about that a bunch and I really, you know, if I could go back to that moment, I would ask his name and ask him to walk up on stage and I would point blank Okay, do you remember making any? Uh, real?
Speaker 2:And I want us to talk about them because you know, different then is that you know, if you'd have made a mistake like Walker made, nobody could have seen it, nobody could have recorded it, nobody could have ever repeated it really. But you made that mistake at that age and we're living with a different time now, and so you know it was just this. It was a very judgmental way of looking at it. I guess is what I'm saying, which you know I understand. People are people and I think people see things in a stupid way sometimes.
Speaker 2:And he did, because I'm not saying that there was no, that we were perfect parents or that Walker was perfectly discipled in our home. I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying that, yeah, I mean, obviously, if we would have been having a Bible study that night, maybe Walker wouldn't have chosen to do what he did. But my point is is that taking a step back and realizing who we are as people? Christ died for our sins. Because we sin, we sin and it's that we don't want to. We try to improve that through his strength every day, but as believers we've got to open our eyes to the real risks that our kids are facing.
Speaker 1:Well, you know one of the things we always say at Next Talk. You know, all of us are still learning, all of us, our kids, us. There's always something that we wish we could have done differently. If we know the outcome of something that is, that is being a human right, that's being a human that's right I just, I think I want to say to you don't let satan have any of that with your heart.
Speaker 1:You, you know, don't, because because you are a good father, you are a good husband and, um, I mean, anytime you know, say, a kid has a car accident, in your mind, you're thinking I should have gone back. Why didn't I teach them about that? Stop at that. Or, you know, like we always question when we go back, but there are some things that God says. This is going to happen in this time, no matter if you're the perfect parent or not, which none of us are.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that ties directly into the conversation we're having about how to continue living what I'm going to consider a profitable life in spite of grief and and I think there's a lot of parents out there that would, that would, could, could relate to that. You know that shame and that, and that you know all those things, all those emotions that are tied to. If I'd have done something different, I wouldn't be in this situation. My, my child wouldn't be in this situation. Um, and you know there's always a balance. I mean, you know, if we can't let our I use the analogy I mean we can't let our two-year-old play on the four-lane highway, I mean that's irresponsible and bad things are going to happen if we do that. But let's come back into a balanced conversation of you know you're doing your best and things happen. Sure, there's things I could have done different. We've talked about those on this show before. But I think how we move forward to that is not what happened in the past, but what are we going to do in the future and that's what I would encourage.
Speaker 2:That parent that's dealing with grief and maybe even wearing a lot of that on their back is you can. You know you can't go back if. If I mean it's it's a common kind of a joke, it's not. It's a joke, but it's not. I mean, you know, somebody will say, what can you look, what can I do for you? I was like, well, if you can create a time machine, that would be perfect. You know, I could fix a lot of stuff with a time machine and um, but time machine and um, but that that. So we got it. We've got to look forward. We got to look towards the future and do what we can.
Speaker 1:Going forward to be a better parent, to be a better spouse, to be a better friend, better brother and sister and um and and have a kingdom perspective is what I would encourage people, I think what fires me up, though, about that question that you got asked is and I walk through Christian parents, through a lot of stuff, and many of them are scared to talk at their church and say my kid is struggling with porn. My kid shared nudes. My kid did. They don't want to share it because of the judgment and and what. What I've been trying to do is say to churches that should be the first place parents run to for help. Why aren't we allowing a space where we're not judging parents or saying when did you give your kid a phone? Or if you wouldn't have done that, stop.
Speaker 1:It is hard being a parent today. Let us run to the church and get support and help as we're navigating these issues. And so I get kind of frustrated on that side of it, and I know I don't want to be church bashing here. You know, of course the church is full of people and we're all still learning and we're all trying to fix. So let me flip it a minute. How has the church been positive in your life? Because let's talk about the negative response of the church and those judgmental types, but how has the church been positive in your recovery and walking through this?
Speaker 2:You know, I mean I talked about whenever, you know, I had, shortly there after losing Walker and Courtney, and I just trying to figure a way to go, you know and how to, how to even face another second of life. And very early on, god I mean we were just praying God. You got to give us something here and it was just a reality of God's going to answer that prayer through people. And that's what he did. I mean he sent our community that we were close to our friends, family, church. I mean I want to step outside the connotation of using the church as a building. I mean, all these people, the majority of these people, go to a church, but they're people that you know our, our church is, our is our community of believers and, and you know, and they were just there, I mean they were, they were there to to listen, they were there to, you know, to help with planning Walker's funeral and everything around it. I mean everything around it, around you that can relate to what you're going through, whether they actually have had that happen or not. You see that they're in pain, like you're in pain, and that gives confidence that this is number one, is real, what I'm walking through and there's people here that really care and that brings comfort and I think that is 100% ordained by God. That's how he answers prayers is through people.
Speaker 2:Are there times biblically where he chose to just put his hand on the situation and fix it? Sure, he did, but in terms of how he daily accomplishes his goals on this earth is through people and that's the church. In terms of how he daily accomplishes his goals on this earth is through people and that's the church. And you know there's people that I would say. There's people that have come into our lives that are not Christians, that have been great assets to us, and so it's not completely tied to just believers. But my point in telling you is that I believe those people are going to become Christians because of this interaction. I believe those people are going to become Christians because of this interaction. So it's been phenomenal to see how people have reached out and how they've been for us, and I would say that that goes for your audience. I mean Next Talk's listeners and committed followers have been unbelievable and that was why I want to expand that more than just a physical church, I mean cause, that's. That's been a huge part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I still get stopped. You know how's Brian, I'm praying for Brian and you know, um, and they've. You're just so relatable and you're such, just like us. You're real. You're real. I'm going to say it how it is. You're transparent. I mean that's the next stock way. And so when you first came on, I think immediately it was just a we relate to him, it that could be our kid. You know, I remember picking my son up from basketball practice that day after I recorded with you and um, the whole way there I thought that could be my son. That could have been my son, because it happens to good kids, the predators know who to target and so you know, just your realness and rawness of walking through that and relying on God has just been. It's been hopeful, it's been inspirational. You know that you could face this and still get up in the morning and make a difference.
Speaker 2:I guess everybody's different, but you know it's, when you get forced into a corner and we, obviously we didn't choose this path.
Speaker 2:I mean we, we would not have, and even even though I mean it's, it's I don't know how people would perceive this comment, but even knowing the impact it's made, um, I wouldn't do it if I could not do it voluntarily, could not.
Speaker 2:And so I believe God knew that, I believe that he understands that, and I mean it's just like you know he, that that picture of him, you know crying at, you know at Lazarus, you know tomb, and seeing the, seeing the pain, I think that's. I think he, I think he had that same emotion towards us, uh, as as people, and um, and so it's, it's, it's real, I mean, and, and so that that aspect of what we're having to go through is it's. You know we, yeah, we make, we make choices every day of how we're going to approach it, but sometimes it's just where's the fire least hot, you know, and I think the path we've chosen, the path, is not as hot as it would be if we just sat back and walked away from God and walked away from the people that we know we can affect.
Speaker 1:You know, when you said we wouldn't choose this path, even knowing you know the awareness we've done and the other kids we've helped, the picture that I pictured in my head when you said that was Jesus right before the crucifixion. When he goes and he prays to God, jesus himself, a perfect human being, says please take this from me, please, I don't want to do this. And then he surrenders and said if it's your will, you know it'll, it'll be my will, your will be done. And um, I think so many times we have to walk through fires in life that we would never go through as human beings. We can't see the other side of it because we couldn't even fathom it, we wouldn't do it, we wouldn't say yes, we wouldn't surrender. And, um, I just think that's a beautiful picture of you know, you having to walk through something that you would never choose. You would never choose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I won't, you know, and I don't know how to best encourage other parents that are dealing with that grief. You know, I can never think of it as an opportunity, even though it is, Even though eternally it is an opportunity. I mean, I envision a day whenever I'm standing before Christ and this impact. You know, my hope is that I can see the impact that Christ made through this walk we're walking through and I see then at that point that it's, that it's worth it. You know, and I'm, and there's a joy, a special joy related to that, Um, and I want to encourage, you know, other parents that are in that spot to. I can't tell you to see it as an opportunity, but I can tell you that it is, it is an opportunity, but I just I can't tell you to see it that way.
Speaker 1:You've been given a burden that I mean I just can't imagine. You know, and I think, as the you know, biblically, we have to carry those burdens with you. We have to come alongside of you and say, how can we help you? How can we, um, you know, raise awareness so this doesn't happen again? All those things of working together, and supporting you as, as you have been, given this horrible thing that you've had, that you're walking through, that you'll, you'll walk through until you. You see Walker again.
Speaker 2:But speaking of moments, you know those moments are more difficult at key times of the year. You know what I year. We just came past Walker's birthday. Most days we wake up and we keep ourselves busy enough doing and going and taking care of things. We think about him all the time but it doesn't get you down like it did once. But there's key times of the year and we're coming up on the holidays. Like I said, we just came back since his birthday. That was really hard the year. And we're coming up on the holidays and, like I said, we just came back since birthday. That was really hard.
Speaker 2:Um, he would, he would be a senior this year and um happened to be. It was on a friday, so we were, you know, with his, with his uh classmates, at football games and that was hard. I mean, that was really hard. And, um, you know, coming up on december, the first, which would be two years after his death, that's gonna be really hard. Um, thanksgiving, we all had traditions at Thanksgiving that you know it's going to be with or going to be without him.
Speaker 2:Christmas is obviously going to be a difficult time and I think that's just bringing that point out to other parents. I mean that's natural, you know those are. Memories is what those are. Those are times that we remember how many things we encountered together and that grief becomes more difficult to contend with in those situations. But you can do it. I mean there's going to be parts of those times. What was his birthday? There's parts of that day that were just down and out, and there were parts of that day that were joyful, where we could remember and spend the time with him. And so just, um, encounter those situations and and know that you'll get past them, um, and hopefully over time they'll get easier. I don't know if they will, but, um, we hope for that.
Speaker 1:Anything else you want to say to a mom or a dad who's just walking through an incredibly hard time in their life and they just feel like they cannot get out of bed in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I would strongly encourage them to connect to somebody that they trust, that they know loves them, that they can walk through. I don't know how you can walk through this by yourself, whether that's a spouse, or whether that's a friend, or whether that's a family member or somebody at church. What I was talking about earlier, we were talking about how the church came alongside us. Those relationships had been prepared long before all these disasters and we didn't know. You know, going through life, we didn't know how important those relationships were going to be at this point. You know, we all view our friends and family as important relationships, but sometimes we neglect them, sometimes we don't value them as much as we should.
Speaker 2:But now I see that a little different. I see that if you haven't had to encounter this type of issue in life, know that those relationships are there for this. As one aspect of those relationships, they're there to help you through these situations. Those relationships, they're there to help you through these situations and and? Um, don't take them for granted. And? Um, value them and build strong relationships. And, uh, if, if you're in that situation today where you're having to walk through it, just like we are, I mean, lean on, because that's that's what, that's how, that's how God will answer those prayers, I believe.
Speaker 1:I think that's a word right there too, for anyone who's not going through grief is, you know, value the people around you. Value the people around you. You know, so many times we get caught up in teenagers being annoying, and they are sometimes. But, really valuing each day that you have with your loved ones.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's both sides of that. You know, on our side we were the recipient of those people coming alongside us. But you know, like I said, those relationships were built over time and some of those were built on us going alongside those people when they needed us. And so that's what a fellow told me one time. He said if you want a friend, be a friend, and I think that's good advice.
Speaker 1:Well, Brian, I appreciate you. You're always being so vulnerable and transparent and I appreciate that and I know God's going to use it and help other people, so I appreciate you being here today, that's our prayer. Make a donation today at nexttalkorg.
Speaker 2:This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.