The first nextTalk kid: an interview with Mandy’s 20-year-old daughter

Mandy sits down with her 20-year-old daughter to discuss: 1) how to respond when your kid is questioning their faith; 2) what she thinks about how Mandy parented phones and social media; and 3) how much she hated “nextTalk teachable moments” as a teen. 

Chapters

• 0:02 Navigating Tech, Culture, and Faith
• 8:42 Navigating Parenting and Faith Challenges
• 18:51 Parenting Amidst Technological Influences
• 24:19 Parenting and Technology Influence Lessons
• 32:22 Navigating Teen Vaping Conversations
• 41:09 Default to Listen

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world. It's Mandy and Kim and we're navigating tech, culture and faith with our kids. You guys, today we have the most special guest ever. My daughter is joining us. She's 20. And if you guys know anything about next talk, you've been around for a while. Her question, as a nine-year-old, is what started this whole thing? I was a mess from her question and I wanted to bring her on the show. She's been on the shows every now and then through the years, but we haven't seen her since she was 18. Now she's 20 and she's getting ready to go to college for the third year. Dang, I know. Welcome to the show, honey. Thank you, tell, tell if. If people haven't followed our journey and know anything about you, tell them just a little bit.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Okay. Well, right now I am a third year psychology student at a Texas university. I mean about me. I love reading, I love painting, I love coffee. I had a coffee before this.

Speaker 1: 1:15

I kind of needed it. It's so funny because I don't like coffee. I know yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Yeah, I've evolved, though I just started liking coffee so I made that my entire personality recently. A little bit of my history something probably every parent who's ever gone to an event knows that when I was nine years old, I was exposed to something at school. Again, I was nine and I did not have a phone. That's how she always phrases it at her events Always that pause she was nine and she did not have a phone.

Speaker 1: 1:48

They make fun of me. They will go to an event and they will come home and my family will line up and make fun of the way I say things. So this is what happens.

Speaker 2: 1:57

I did not have a phone, just to be clear. But yeah, that's what started the whole NextTalk journey. So true. Next Talk founder right here. Next Talk founder and her mom actually should rename the podcast. That's so true. Take it out of my title. Yeah, it's been 11 years now.

Speaker 1: 2:17

Yeah, 11 years. Through the years we have actually talked about how, when you go to an event or you've read my book, you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't see that from your perspective, right, because we had totally two different like. I was looking at it as a mom mad that her kid's innocence had been stolen, but you.

Speaker 2: 2:37

No, I mean when I was nine years old, not having a phone, and I was in my room and I just like asked that question to me, it wasn't like I didn't see it as a big deal, it was just a question.

Speaker 2: 2:47

But when I went back some years later and read your book and you're talking about like you heard my meek little voice from my bedroom closet and like you had all these conversations with dad and like their world just completely like flipped and it was like to me, again, just a question, but to you it was like your world shattering, which is just so crazy for me to think about. Like the difference in perspectives there. It's been interesting like going along your journey, learning all of like where you've come from, and even now I work in childcare a lot, like that's one of my main things, like I babysit a lot, I work at my church and childcare. So it's been crazy to see, even just from my perspective and like the education you've given me through your book and your ministry of like, truly like, how things have changed for kids today it's.

Speaker 1: 3:59

It's crazy. I see it all the time. You know how I feel you get outdated really fast in today's world. One of the things that I share a lot at events and in the books is that you know, when I realized that the solution to keeping you safe was really not not giving you a phone or not being crazy helicopter-y with the phone, you know, not crazy sheltering, it was really like the culture of conversation, like just talking. You know that Deuteronomy six, six and seven. And I didn't know the first step to make that happen Like how do I just get her to talk to me and we have this healthy dialogue? And so my first step was and I really felt the prompting of God to ask you this question was how can I be a better mom? Do you remember that night that I was? I crawled in bed with you and asked you that question and it was kind of my attempt at man, how, what, how, what am I doing wrong here? Tell me about that, like what you thought.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Well, I remember sassy and you were like I remember saying you're not a good listener, and again to me that was just like I don't know she's always on her phone, like she's not a good listener, like I even noticed it too If a kid's you know talking talking, talking, talking.

Speaker 1: 5:15

You're tempted to just be like, right, yeah, and I noticed you now that I babysit more.

Speaker 2: 5:18

So there just wasn't a lot of active listening in my like childhood. But again, that like wasn't a big deal for me. I was just answering a question and then reading your book. It was like your heart broke and like shattered and like your earth was like like everything's coming to an end.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Well, I didn't cry in front of you, but I cried with dad that night because I just kept thinking like I really am missing it. You know, I'm on my phone all the time. I'm not paying attention to her. There are. I've got to get this right. Like I got one shot at being mom and it really was a wake up call for me, do you remember? Because then I said can you help me be?

Speaker 2: 5:57

a cash roll, you would do report cards for me. She got better, she did.

Speaker 1: 6:04

I've worked really hard and I've tried, but I think we all have stuff. We all have stuff Okay. So it's kind of funny as we talk about this and you remember it just so differently than I do as we were talking about this show, I kind of went to her and said what do you think we need to talk about? And we came up with three topics that we think are really, really important that we're going to cover today. One is how to respond when your kid is questioning their faith, what she thinks about parenting, phones and social media. And then also the third one is how she hated my teachable moments as a teenager.

Speaker 1: 6:43

Now I laugh when I say this because literally two days ago I was at an event and a mom stood up at the event and asked this question. She said I've been following you guys since the beginning, since nine-year-old asked the question. And she said since we were back at our radio days, kim and I will remember that before you know, we were on the radio, am radio station. And she said my kids now they're next talk kids. They tell me, but now they're starting to roll my eyes at the teachable moments. And when she said it we had just talked about this show and I was like stay tuned, cause my daughter wants to address this, because I think I got it wrong.

Speaker 2: 7:24

If you've been following next talk for a while, you've heard teachable moments, or I think that's the terminology you use. So, talking, stick around stick around.

Speaker 1: 7:38

That's going to be at the end. And I really want you to speak into parents here because and maybe if you feel comfortable opening up about your journey, about a kid who is questioning their faith or cooling away, you know you've got a teenager and a mom just notices they don't want to go to church, they don't want to be involved, they don't want to talk, they don't want to read scripture. Help us with this.

Speaker 2: 8:01

Well, I think I'll start by talking about or just kind of prefacing with. I struggled with my faith. You know my kind of like my junior, senior year of high school and then freshman year of college, and I think it's very natural for teenagers to go through that, especially like growing up in a Christian household where it's something they've been, they've been hearing all their lives and I don't think that at all has made my faith any weaker. In fact I think it's helped me build like a really strong foundation by myself. I think it's really important that kids learn how to build that foundation by themselves rather than someone just giving them that foundation. But I preface with that to just kind of lean in and encourage by saying I was by no means like a perfect kid. I feel like there's this kind of misconception out there that like, oh, mandy's got this next talk thing going on Her kids are perfect, they're angels. We're not my brother and I, my brother especially. No, we're just. I mean, we're not perfect, we're human and we're kids. But just to speak into that a bit more, I think, especially when kids go through big periods of change like going to college I was lucky enough to go to a Christian college. That's where I go and I felt like I had Christian community all around me and yet I was really struggling with like what I believed once. I was being exposed to all these different points of view and beliefs, even in Christianity, like all these different denominations and ideas and doctrines. So I think it's it's perfectly normal.

Speaker 2: 9:37

I also think it's really easy, from what I hear, for parents to especially Christian parents to freak out if a kid starts to lose their faith.

Speaker 2: 9:46

Because, again, I'm not a parent, but from what I hear, that's kind of like worst case scenario, like my kid can do whatever, but if they lose their faith, like that's the worst thing that could happen, because that's messing with their eternity, not just their life here. So I understand that's a very scary place to be, but just to speak into that, I think it's super important in those times that you as a parent have faith that Jesus isn't going to give up on your kid. You know he's always going to be pursuing them and going after them and he's always going to be there behind them, no matter where they go. If they're going down a bad path, he's always going to be there, walking right beside them. So, even though it's scary as a parent to, I guess, like give up that control. It's important that you see that you are not giving up on them by allowing them to figure out their faith on their own.

Speaker 1: 10:44

For sure. Yeah, I'm kind of having a moment.

Speaker 2: 10:47

Just having a moment.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Well, you said, parents tend to freak out and I don't think I freaked out with you. I tried not to, but I think internally I was freaking out junior and senior year and I remember just praying over and over Lord, speak so strongly to her that she knows it's you Right, and I didn't like I trusted God with you. But in the what I was struggling with was how did I screw her up, like what have I done? Like what have I messed up in our, in our, to make her question or go through this or go struggle a bit. And so it's definitely a full circle moment to have you here, because you know that's something I've never shared with anybody, because it's your story, it's not my story, and to have you share it openly I do think it really helps parents, because I do think they look in and they think, oh, mandy's kids just have it all figured out and we struggle like we've struggled and I just I think it's a really important thing.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Well and I want to speak into that a bit too, because you didn't mess anything up that's the thing. You could be the most perfect Jesus exemplifying parent and your kid might still struggle with their faith, and that's okay, because you don't want them to have a faith where they are just like accepting everything that you're giving them, like you want them to have their own faith and their own relationship with Jesus, like not yours, almost like we don't.

Speaker 1: 12:18

We don't want to raise robotic kids that just say, okay, mom believes this. So I believe this right, like it is in that true wrestling between you and Jesus that the foundation is going to be there for when you get tested or when bad things come your way in your life that I can't protect you from, and I think it's actually a good thing. You know, we we did do a questioning your faith show a couple of years ago and I actually think it's a good thing that there, if your kid is questioning because it's almost like God is so important that I'm going to put attention to it Do I believe this? What do I believe? And if they are just writing it off, saying screw it, whatever, I'm out of here, that's, that's a little different. Yeah, and so if they're struggling, if they're asking questions, if they're like mom, I don't like that. God says this. That's good, like don't freak out. I feel like that's a good thing. It's a good thing. Let them wrestle, let them figure it out, let them wrestle.

Speaker 1: 13:20

When you were going through that, there was a time you didn't want to go to church with us and I remember we would be in church and I would just miss you Like I would miss you know, and I'd be praying for you and really only miss Kim and dad knew you know, pray for this kid. I'm worried about this kid. And one Sunday we were singing a song and I can't remember the song now, but the lyrics of it is. Even when you don't see him, he's working and I remember God speaking to me in that moment of. I know you don't see it, waymaker?

Speaker 2: 14:01

Yeah, it was just playing in my head, waymaker.

Speaker 1: 14:04

I remember we left church. I was crying and you know me, I don't cry during worship, like we're not emotional worshipers in our family, right? That's a whole other podcast. That's a whole other podcast but I was crying that day and I left and dad said what is wrong? You know what is wrong with you? And I said God's working. Even if we don't see it or feel it, he is working in her life. And I don't know if you remember this, but a couple years later you started going back to church but you didn't want to go with us, so you would go to the early service and we would go to the late service and you called me or you texted me after the first service and I said how was it? And you said it was really good. Today they sang this song called Waymaker and I showed dad the text and it was like full circle, just like God wink, you know, like I've got her. And I think it's just. I think parents need to hear that Like God is working, even when you don't see it.

Speaker 2: 15:04

Again that have faith. God is not giving up on your kid. He will not, ever, ever, he will never give up on you. He'll never give up on your kid.

Speaker 1: 15:14

True, true, it's a preach. You also said something when we were talking about this about it's not all about going to church either, and I thought you had a really good point about that.

Speaker 2: 15:23

As we were talking through this point, tell me what you think about that I think it's important for parents who really want to prioritize their kids, like growing in their faith, like, yes, go to church, go to Bible studies, read your Bible with your kids. Like listen to worship music, get them involved, that's great, like it's all great things, but I was involved in all those things and I still questioned and had a moment of kind of needing to I wouldn't say step away, but almost like deconstruct and build my own relationship with Christ. So I think it's very important through all of this that your priority is being Jesus for your kid. Because if your kid is, you know going to church and doing the things and you know you're having Bible study in the morning but then you're going out to eat and you're cursing out your waiter or you're gossiping with I don't know PTA moms, I don't know like doing these things that are very much not the character of Christ. Your kids put it together and it's very evident and they begin to associate Christianity with these hateful, judgmental things.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Hypocrites, yeah. These very Pharisees, yeah. They see Christianity as hypocritical and hateful and judgmental. And you don't want that. You know you want to be showing the love of Christ to everyone always, not just for Christ, but so your kids see that example and they associate Christianity with love and comfort and peace and grace and mercy. And that's in all your interactions, not just with your kids and how you interact with them, but your spouse and strangers and friends and neighbors and even people you don't like. You know that's really important that your kids are seeing how you're interacting with everyone.

Speaker 1: 17:15

I think that's so important and and that is where, to you know, we teach one of our core principles is look in the mirror, because you want to be Jesus to your kids, but you're not going to be perfect. And I do think I shifted when I realized that I wasn't a good listener. I really shifted to that vulnerability, humility, Like I'm not always getting it right, or I may not always tell you right what the Bible says, or I may not. I may sound judgmental and I don't mean to be, but I think it's very important that parents are humble, look in the mirror, apologetic because we are going to mess up, but we need to own that when we do. Yeah, so we're not the hypocritical holier than thou and acting like we've got it all together because we don't?

Speaker 1: 17:59

We're all kind of struggling. Okay, anything else that you want to say about the faith perspective I do want to mention. She said deconstruct, and I think, as a mom, we freak out when we hear that word and we've talked about over the years. She would say a word like that and it would cause me to spiral. What I have learned is to say to her I Tell me how you're defining that.

Speaker 2: 18:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:24

What does that mean? Yeah, so what does that mean to you? I used to not always do that, and so the first time she used the word deconstruct with me, I was like I remember.

Speaker 2: 18:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:36

So tell me how you're defining.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Well, I defined deconstruct, especially during my freshman year of college, as I was like hearing all these things and I wasn't sure what I believed. So it was kind of like going back to square one and just looking through and like learning about the character and identity of Christ. It wasn't so much like I'm just going to walk away from the faith and like take a second, like it wasn't at all that I was still in church and like doing all the things, but it was more like I need to look at my heart and see where my relationship is and just like maybe like take some pieces off the top, these things that I've learned, and kind of go back to like the source, like go back to the Bible, go back to God, see what he says, and then I can start like building my knowledge and my identity from there.

Speaker 1: 19:23

What was cool during this timeframe is she would call us and ask us things and where did you get that and why do you feel that way? But also she would email our pastor. I did Like two pages of notes, right. I need help with this, and so again it's going back to that. She had a community around her. She couldn't. She didn't just have me to ask, she had a whole church community that was there for her to answer questions.

Speaker 2: 19:48

And that's why, like keeping them, like trying to get them to go to church and like get involved in small group, like even in my time in junior and senior year, like I wouldn't go to church service but I was super involved in our youth group, even if I wasn't necessarily being fed by the sermons as much like I had that community around me. So if I was struggling with something I felt like I could open up to them about it.

Speaker 1: 20:11

Yeah, and I think that's super important. We've said from day one get your kids plugged into a youth group that they love. That may not be at your church, they may want to go to another youth group. Let them they need to find their own place, as long as it's a biblical place of learning and it's not going to send them away from the Bible, which we know that exists now. But we, you know, let them choose their community and let them get plugged in and that really was great. Even I was so excited when the youth pastor said to serve in the ministry, you have to go one time or whatever, because that forced you to go every now and then to church and then I'm not the bad guy that you pastor was Okay. Anything else on the faith perspective, I think that would be really helpful to parents. Just trust God with your kid. Yes, have faith. Yeah, okay, phones and social media Rate me on how I did with this.

Speaker 2: 21:04

I heard you did pretty good. Like the advice you give to parents today is probably like I think that's what I'll use with my kids. I think the time you gave me a phone is like reasonable it was like middle school, I think which makes sense. You're like going between classes more, you want to contact your friends and like have more of an actual social life. I think I probably would have held out on social media a little bit longer. Yeah, I think I got Instagram, maybe like sixth grade. I probably would have held that out a bit longer.

Speaker 1: 21:37

It was your first one. I think if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have given you a phone that early, not because you did anything wrong. I think the world has shifted. Technology, tech, social media, the pressures on social media and the sextortion claims and the way the predators contact you now they're more savvy. It's insane, and so I don't think I would have, in this day, given it to you going into middle school. I would have delayed it a bit more. It's dangerous.

Speaker 1: 22:08

A hundred percent, but I do, I do like the fact that we did it then and you're okay, and I think the the only reason you're okay is because of the conversation. Yeah, because of that Deuteronomy six, six and seven verse. I really do, because we've had issues with social media. So tell me about your. I know what you're going to say here.

Speaker 2: 22:33

The worst social media platform. Don't give your kids TikTok. Don't do it why? So remember how I said I was being led away from the faith around junior senior year. Guess when I got TikTok? Junior year, junior year, okay. To be fair, junior year was also when COVID hit for me. So I was home all junior year. I saw my friends. I would go in person for theater. That was it. Those were the only friends I saw, and like youth group on Wednesdays, but other than that, I just rotted in my bed and was on TikTok.

Speaker 2: 23:07

Okay, Well that makes you sound like a bad mom, so I didn't really rot.

Speaker 1: 23:11

No I know, it's fine, you were on screens. I've said it on the show before. During COVID you were on screens more yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:18

And I just felt myself being influenced so heavily, so heavily. I don't have TikTok anymore. I don't watch it one. It's so addicting, like I will just be scrolling for forever and I'm like, what did I even watch? Like how did I just spend my day? It just makes me sad and I feel gross after watching for so long. But also because I know how, like my character, and I know how I'm influenced by things I see online. So I've made that personal decision for myself, with you know, with your kids, they're not going to understand that as much if they're like a very easily influenced kid.

Speaker 1: 23:55

So as she was going through that, we did a show called influenced. It was all the stuff that I was trying to talk to her about while she was being influenced, but she didn't recognize she was being influenced. So if you've got a kid getting into peer pressure and you're scared, go listen to that show. I think it would be really helpful to you.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay, what else? What else about phones and social media? Did you like the progression of not really having a phone in your room? I mean, you had a computer during COVID because we all had to go to our four time, but you didn't have a phone at night until later, right before you went to college.

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah, honestly, I didn't have a phone in my room at night, yeah, like until probably the year before I went to college, and even then it was like limited. So do you? I think that was great.

Speaker 1: 24:41

Have you heard that conversation of dad and I? Behind that I looked at dad one night and I said she's never had her phone all night. She's going to go to a dorm room and be on her phone. She's going to flunk out. Nobody's going to be there to tell her. So immediately we wanted to catch you doing something great and say hey, because you are such a good kid and you told us this or whatever. You get your phone in your bed at night now. And now I tell parents that early on I said just no phones in bedrooms ever. Now I say you know, six months before they're getting ready to move out, if they're a trustworthy kid and you've had no problems, they need to earn it. So that's something we've kind of added in the last couple of years, as I've, as I've learned that.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Well, and the thing too is like when they're that young, like again, I can be very easily influenced and I can get like addicted to scrolling really easily. For me it wasn't like the phone in the bedroom, wasn't even like oh, she's going to do something, it was literally just I will scroll all night and then I won't wake up in time for school or I won't study for my test, that kind of stuff. So, getting that my last year, but also us having conversations about it, I think that's why it's so important to implement those things before they're off. You know that senior year we were able to talk about like so did you feel like maybe you were scrolling a little too much last?

Speaker 1: 26:01

night I was okay, I'm going to. I'm going to ask this Do you remember the time you overslept and missed a test? That'll do it and I let you fail because I I saw you oversleeping and I thought I could wake her up and then she's probably squirreled all night and then she's not going to learn, or I can let her figure this out.

Speaker 2: 26:23

I figured it out at 17, it's time to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 26:27

You got to let them fail and I remember that night you came home and you looked at me and was telling me about the conversation with your teacher and I knew she was scrolling all night. But I looked at her and I said why do you think you overslept? Do you remember that?

Speaker 2: 26:44

Yeah sister it was like the walk of shame back into the house, like well, that did not go well.

Speaker 1: 26:51

But I think that was good for you, because now when you do that at college, I'm sure it happens occasionally.

Speaker 2: 26:58

You you remember that well, and it's the same way with like gaming. I see a lot with. I mean usually like teen boys, but they're gaming all the time and like if you at home have very strict like TV goes off at this time to this time, or like you can only play for this amount of time, I've seen it they go off to college. They don't even go to class. They play video games all day Cause mom's not there to tell.

Speaker 2: 27:21

Yeah, they don't have like their screen, like limits or whatever. So it's really, really important You're having those conversations and helping your kids process. Why am I feeling this way? How did this affect me? I think for me that was so important. It was like how do you see how this is directly affecting that and like how you're being influenced.

Speaker 1: 27:42

I feel like that's the biggest lesson that you can give your kid on having a healthy balance with screens. You need to set you guys use the term rot when you're scrolling yeah, you need to sit in the rot and feel that right, and feel like. I feel gross, like I've just been consuming for six hours and now I'm mad at everybody and I'm angry. And when you see that, then you get to ask yourself is this the kind of person I want to be? Right, yeah, so to see that that, how it impacts you. Okay, anything else on phones and social media that?

Speaker 2: 28:15

you want to say so. Something I've noticed, especially as like a childcare worker, that I have found found very alarming and really sad, honestly is kind of kids' awareness of themselves. Compared to when I was in elementary school, I didn't think too much about what I looked like or necessarily like how I was perceived to other people, but now you know the kids in elementary school and middle school who are super active on YouTube or TikTok or any of these really influencing social media platforms where they are like interacting with which is super interesting to me, like wanting to identify as a certain aesthetic or it even, you know, boils down to wanting to identify as a certain sexuality, even just like how they're dressing, and the awareness and criticalness of their own bodies. I've noticed like just more attention towards what they look like, which is, I feel like, not good.

Speaker 1: 29:27

Well, you really didn't get into aesthetics until seventh, eighth grade, after you had had Instagram. A little bit, honestly, past that, honestly.

Speaker 2: 29:34

I didn't get into like aesthetics, like identifying your aesthetics till probably sophomore or junior year.

Speaker 1: 29:40

Yeah, and we would call that just trend, trendy stuff, but that's what they call it today. Aesthetics and I, you, you talked about that sexuality. One conversation that we had that I thought was really important through the years was labels, and that really captures everything. It captures sexuality, it captures body image, it captures calling yourself fat, stupid, you know, whatever these, these labels that we give ourselves, and I think that was a big deal. I mean, I remember when you were older, you talked about this in youth group, about the labels about about you know, you've got your whole life to figure out who you are. Don't pick up a label, right. And so I think that's really important. If your kids are on social media and talking to them about that, it's a it's a good general way to talk about labels without calling out their label if they're struggling with something, right.

Speaker 2: 30:31

I just think kids at that age are so like, their minds are not developed enough to understand that they are so much more complex and their identities are so much more beautiful than just like I'm preppy or I'm nerdy or I'm whatever, you know, whatever aesthetic it is.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Yeah, all right, this last section. I feel like this is going to hurt a little bit. I'm going to be humbled again. I get humbled over and over again. Okay, so this, this section you said we need to cover your teachable moments.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yes, Tell us about that, so I didn't think too much of them when I was younger. Tell us about that, so I didn't think too much of them when I was younger. You know, I think it's important you see your kid doing something or being a little sassy, or whatever, and you hey this is why we don't do that.

Speaker 2: 31:22

Yeah, that makes sense. And they're young. Yeah, as they get older, opportunities arise maybe with their friends or things they've seen online to include these teachable moments when they say something to you, report something to your mom I saw this, or my friends are doing this, and it's super easy, because you are so protective, to turn that into a well. This is why we don't do this. I'm here to present the child side of that of like, especially when I was in high school, and even now, honestly, I mean, you don't do them as now anymore, like you don't really have the need to.

Speaker 1: 31:57

I mean you're 20 now.

Speaker 2: 31:58

Yeah, I mean I'm going to be but especially in high school, when they're at that kind of like rebellious, like, oh, mom, like you suck. In that kind of stage when you're saying these teachable moments, they get hurt and offended. Even if they're not going to show it, it's going to come off as sass. So let me give you an example. Let's say I come to my mom. This is like high school, I'm like 16 or whatever and I'm like mom. I went to the bathroom with my friends during fourth period and they all, like, pulled out a vape and started vaping. Should we just role play it, mom? This happened. What would you say? And started vaping. Should we role play it, mom? This happened. What would you say?

Speaker 1: 32:31

Honey, you know why we don't vape right, I mean lungs. We don't know the damage it's doing to you.

Speaker 2: 32:42

You could get caught and it could get on your record Right? So she's. It makes sense Like as a protective parent.

Speaker 1: 32:45

you want to jump in?

Speaker 2: 32:45

I just launched into my talking points you just want to save me. I understand that now, but as a teenager it was so frustrating to me because I'm coming to you and telling you something that clearly raised red flags in my head. I wouldn't be telling you if I thought it was not a big deal. So if I genuinely thought vaping wasn't a big deal, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it, but because I was like I don't think that was like the best decision, I'm confessing it to you and by you turning around and saying this is why we don't do it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It makes me feel like, okay, you're just assuming the worst about me, Like you're just assuming I was going to vape, even though I deliberately just told you because I know it's wrong.

Speaker 1: 33:30

So in hindsight I wish I could redo this, because you know what I didn't need to do the teachable moment? Because we'd already had the conversation. And that's why you told me we had already had the conversation about why vaping is bad for them from a health perspective, from a legal perspective, just from an integrity perspective. We had had that conversation and B, and because it did create a red flag then that's why she told me so I don't need to revisit and spew out all the talking points again. And that made you feel belittled at, kind of like I didn't trust you.

Speaker 2: 34:05

Yeah, it was a big, just kind of trust flow and I wouldn't come out and say, like mom, that really hurt, like I didn't have the emotional maturity or really the language to say, mom, that really hurts, because it makes me feel like you don't trust me. Instead, it came out with it's not a big deal, mom, it's not a big deal.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Even though I didn't believe that. And then I'm thinking, oh crap, it's not a big deal, now she's going to go do it, it's just like reverse psychology in both directions. Honestly, is how it's feeling.

Speaker 2: 34:31

Yeah, and so I understand now. Yeah, I think if I were to give a word to the parents who need to have those teachable moments, I think it's important let's say we hadn't talked about vaping before. Or even if you did want to just speak into that a bit, if I said I went to the bathroom with my friends and they vaped, you might respond instead of, well, you know why we don't do that, this, this, this, this. Maybe you respond with a well, what do you think about that? Or like, did you feel like you wanted to vape? You know, asking their actual stance on something and I know some kids can be misleading. You know, maybe there's a little trying to feel you out, see how you stand on something. So I understand that perspective too, but I think it's important that you see where your kid stands.

Speaker 1: 35:21

I really liked that question that you said how did that make you feel? How do you? How does that make you feel? What do you think about this? That kind of stuff putting it back on your kid, right, you know, again you're gathering context about what they're trying to tell you about this situation, because they are bringing it to you, because it's almost like they want to talk about it but they don't want to talk about it. You know, sometimes I think some kids and a lot depends on a kid's personality, the relationship with a parent, I mean, this is going to vary, obviously, but in our relationship, I think that was really important.

Speaker 1: 35:51

I think also, some kids just want to like get it out of their mind. It's almost like a confession. Yeah, like if I say it and then something happens and my friends get caught and I'm with them mom knows what's going on Almost like a cover your butt kind of thing, right, something like that, I think. Also tell me about this advice. This is something we say to parents often, because we did a show called I think it was called emotional vomit or something like that. But one of the things we said was, when your kid is telling you things, literally ask them. Do you want me to just listen? Are you venting or do you want me to weigh in on this? Do you need help? Do you think that's good? We ask the teenager?

Speaker 2: 36:31

I think it's good, I think it's smart to just default to listening. We were talking about this kind of one-liner earlier of listen to understand, not to respond, and I think that's super important. In any kind of conversation, like with a kid or the spouse, a friend, literally anyone. You were like you should be listening, to put yourself in their shoes and understand their circumstances and how they're feeling, rather than trying to come up with something to either combat that or comfort that or or teach them or teach. Teach that. Yeah, I would always. Whenever you had those teachable moments, I would always call it lecturing. Like mom, stop lecturing me. I know vaping is wrong. Like you don't have to tell me, we still have those moments sometimes.

Speaker 1: 37:22

Well, and I would feel like I wasn't lecturing, but but I think I was, I think I was and I didn't mean to be I think also like bite size pieces, you know, like even in the moment, maybe your kid maybe you do need to cover the basics with your kid about why it's bad, but maybe in the moment it is wow, okay, how does that make you feel? And then, depending on what they say from that, maybe a day or two later you can come back with hey, I was thinking about our conversation and you know, there there are health risks and there are this risk, and just, but keep it brief, like that should be like a couple minutes, if that, even if that it's important if your kid confesses something to you, something like that you know.

Speaker 2: 38:04

like not necessarily like I did this. That might be a bigger conversation, but my friends did this, or I heard this from someone, or I saw this on YouTube. Less of a let's sit down and lecture about it, because they're just going to tune you out If they're saying, mom, I heard this, and then they hear that deep breath and like they see the gears turning of, like how they see the teachable moment looming over the horizon. They're just, they're done.

Speaker 1: 38:30

They're done. Oh my gosh, we've covered this.

Speaker 2: 38:34

And it's just frustrating to them.

Speaker 1: 38:35

I see it.

Speaker 2: 38:36

I see that it's very much so that definitely doesn't mean don't teach it, because that's important, that's your role as a parent, like you're supposed to be guiding them, but those little nuggets of maybe a reaction or oh, that doesn't sound very safe. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1: 38:54

Well, we always say to parents listen, even if your kid confides in something new. That's really hard to hear. It's a win that they're telling you, that they're trusting you and so just reminding yourself in that moment. Well, I think that's good, I think that's really good advice that we need to be careful of. That I have because we just want to instill in our minds. We have 18 years to cram all this information and then you're off. You know you're off and, and so we're trying to get them all in there. But but I do think we need to check ourselves, especially if we've already covered it with you guys and then you're confiding in us. Yeah, I'm sorry, I got it wrong. It's okay. Maybe you should start giving me a report card again.

Speaker 1: 39:35

I'm kind of thinking that too Well, this should help with your brother the last two years in high school. I need to reel in the teachable moments.

Speaker 2: 39:43

Oh yeah, I already noticed it. I noticed it. Do I do?

Speaker 1: 39:47

Does he look at me when I do it?

Speaker 2: 39:49

We'll like make eye contact. You'll start talking about like this is why you shouldn't do that. He'll make eye contact with me and we both just kind of like.

Speaker 1: 39:56

Like the TMs are coming. Teachable moments.

Speaker 2: 39:59

She's gearing up. Take a seat everyone.

Speaker 1: 40:02

The next stop moment. The next stop moment Get popcorn.

Speaker 2: 40:04

We're going to be here a while Just kidding.

Speaker 1: 40:13

I wasn't that long. I wasn't that long, but I would, I would, I did want to teach you guys so anything else this has all been. I hope this has really helped. What a parents. I hope so too.

Speaker 2: 40:20

Obviously, I'm not a parent, so if at any point I was like parents, you need to do this. It's just my opinion and what I've learned, so don't bash on me.

Speaker 1: 40:34

Don't bash on me. Don't bash on me. I know I don't know everything. I have not had kids. Well, I. It's just a full circle moment for me because there there have been so many times that I've really wanted to say you know, my kids did this wrong or my kids did that, but I just it's, that's not my story to tell she's wanted to expose us's craving it.

Speaker 1: 40:51

She just needed you guys to know Well they needed to hear from you, but that we've had rough patches and we've had moments where we did not get it right at all. We're all still learning.

Speaker 2: 41:02

That's a phrase we you get tired of hearing that too right.

Speaker 1: 41:07

We're all still learning.

Speaker 2: 41:08

We're all still learning.

Speaker 1: 41:09

Well, dang, I think after today, default to listen is the default to listen, is the new, is the new logo? No, let me say that is the new saying. That's the new saying. You're welcome, all right. Well, thank you for being here, I love you.

Speaker 2: 41:23

Thank you for having me, yes. Okay, and maybe you'll come back if, if they want you back, y'all let me know I could yap forever, so just let me know Thanks for being here.

Speaker 1: 41:36

I bet people are going to be writing in questions to you, so I may be forwarding some stuff to college, some questions that you'll have to answer. Okay, all right, thanks guys. I hope this was helpful. This podcast is adfree because of all the people who donate to our nonprofit. Make a donation today at nexttalkorg.

Speaker 2: 41:58

This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.