nextTalk
How do we keep our kids safe online? How do we protect our children in an overexposed, sexualized culture?
Join Mandy Majors (award-winning author of "TALK" and "Keeping Kids Safe in a Digital World") for real conversations about the intersection of tech, culture and faith.
nextTalk is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization keeping kids safe by creating a culture of open communication in families, churches and schools.
nextTalk
LIVE SHOW: Does your kid know what to do when they see something bad?
We've created six guidelines that when communicated to kids should trigger a red flag to go off in their mind that they need to tell mom, dad, or a trusted adult! Listen in for this very practical resource that could save your kid.
KEEPING KIDS SAFE ONLINE
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Welcome to the next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world.
Speaker 2:It's Mandy and Kim and we're navigating tech, culture and faith with our kids.
Speaker 1:All right guys, kim and I have been doing this new format where we do this live recording and take it and put it on our podcast, and love taking questions from you. We always start with kind of like a topic that we want to cover, and today we're talking about something that we have covered a lot in the past, that we used to call them reporting guidelines, and we created these years ago because I was realizing filters weren't catching stuff with my kids, my young littles, things that I wanted to speak into, and this could be like they were playing Roblox and something popped up that a filter didn't catch. Or it could also be like a conversation at school, at the school lunch table, where there's nobody monitoring that, and what I wanted was a red flag alert to go off in their brain. Uh-oh, this is something I need to tell mom or dad about, like this conversation, and then they would bring those home to me and it would create so much discussion. So five of these we're now calling them red flag alerts because we really want that red flag alert to go off in your kid's brain, to be like I need to tell a trusted adult here. It doesn't mean they're bad things Some things could be amazing, but it's a way to create discussion with your littles about new things that they're seeing and hearing.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of why we wanted to tackle this, the reporting guidelines there's five of them that I have in my book from years ago that are tried and true, that I've used in my home for years and I've watched them evolve over the years and how we do it. But the core principles are the same, but things you know culture has shifted too, so we even added a new one to make sure that we're catching some new things that we're talking about. So we want to dive into these today. Kim, do you want to say anything else before we actually start diving into our list? And Darby pulls up this report that we're doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a couple things.
Speaker 2:Mandy created these and I implemented them in my home from day one, so I kind of got a little bit of an edge on that because my kids were younger, and so it's been really just incredible to watch how these have transformed our family, especially the way that our kids bring things to us.
Speaker 2:What they say, what they feel like they need to communicate to us, is so different than what we saw in their friends' homes, and how that has evolved as they've gotten older. Now I have older kids, and just this morning on the way to school, I was like hey guys, we're doing this live podcast about the reporting guidelines that we're now calling the Red Flag Alert, and they just listed them from their core being, because it's something we talked about from day one and it's something that we set as our foundation for them from the beginning, and so it's very normalized in our household, and so that's something I would say if you have young kids, that we're going to encourage you to take these ideas, make them your own and start early, but if you have older kids, we're going to show you how that looks and how it has changed as our kids have gotten older and how it can still be super effective.
Speaker 1:Yes. So Darby, first of all I want to say Darby for those of you who don't know who Darby is, she is our communications manager at nextTalk, if you can see her pretty face, and she's going to be she helps do like graphic design, social media, that kind of stuff, and we've put together a new printable for these red flags that we want kids to be ingrained in. Like I said, like if these topics come up, whether online or with friends, it's just a red flag. Oh my gosh, this is something mom or dad wants to know about, right. And so Darby put together a graphic for us. She's going to put that up on the screen now because I want you guys to see it, and we're going to walk through some of these, okay.
Speaker 1:So the first one I implemented right away when my kids were little was new word, phrase or idea you don't know. So, literally, I would say to my kids if there's ever a time when you're online or you're at school and somebody's talking about something and you're like, hmm, I wonder what that means, If you ever feel that way, red flag, that's something you need to ask me about, right. So just something very simple. You're going to get all kinds of things with this. You're going to get cuss words, you're going to get cool things, like I remember one time, mom, what does forgiveness mean? I mean, that's a beautiful conversation, right. So you're going to get all kinds of good and bad things with this, but it creates more conversation in your home.
Speaker 2:And it's really important with this one when they bring you those things that seem kind of funny. Like you know, I heard this new word today. It was transportation. What does that mean? And there's something bad. It's so easy for us to laugh and be like, oh my gosh, you're so silly Like that's not a bad thing, and my nine year old reminded me, like Mandy said, it's not always a bad thing, and we don't want to laugh or belittle anything they bring to us. We want to say thank you for telling me that was the right thing to do. Here's what that means and honor the fact that they did what you asked, and then give them the definition and some examples and then move on. And then that sets the example for them that, okay, I can depend on mom to tell me or dad to tell me what I need to know or what I don't know, and so it's super important that we don't belittle the things that seem little with our kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what you're doing is you're creating a standard operating procedure of like you're just being the Google. You're being the Google. I always say to my kids when they were little obviously I don't now, right, they're teenagers but when they were little I would always say, please don't ever Google anything when you're curious. Like that's what I'm for, that's why I'm telling you, if you ever hear any kind of new idea, word or phrase, I'm here for you. Like I've got your back and that way I can make sure that your heart and mind aren't exposed to anything that's bad for you, that could hurt you, or that you're not getting wrong information. Like I grew up in a generation where if I had to ask my friends about sex, I got wrong information all the time, right, and so we want our kids to be educated, and so it's like we just want to give you the right information. So you ask me. So that's a real good catch. All like implement it today. That's a really good red flag reporting guideline there.
Speaker 1:The other one is anyone asking for personal information. So again, this could be in real life. You could be at a grocery store and your little is in the cart and you are turning around getting cereal to put in your cart and an old man is coming up saying to your girl oh, you have such a pretty dress, when do you go to school, sweetie? That should be a red flag alert in your kid's brain. Wait a minute, I don't give people personal information. And the same thing online if they're playing Roblox and somebody is chatting with them and says where do you go to youth group? Where do you go to school? There just should be a red flag alert going off in your child's brain.
Speaker 1:I need to tell mom or dad about this. And again, when they bring it to you, don't go crazy. It doesn't mean that this person is a predator, right, I mean it could be. It could be, but we also have to be really careful with our response that we're not so overreactionary that they never tell us anything again. So it's always. Thank you so much for telling me this person may not be bad at all, but we have to be careful because there are bad people and we can't just give out personal information to anyone. So this is what I always want you to do.
Speaker 2:Thank you for telling me that kind of thing, and this one's really important to, not just for your kid but for their friends. And we had a situation in our household where my son, when he was in second grade, out on the playground talking to a friend and the friend was telling him about playing Roblox. And he's like, and I have this new friend who was asking me about where I go to school and, just like Mandy was mentioning, asking some very personal information, and because we had set this in place in our home, he said you can't tell him, like that could be dangerous. And this kid was like what do you mean? And my son, as soon as I picked him up, said mom, so?
Speaker 2:And so this happened. You got to tell his mom and I said okay, and I reached out and she was able to look on the Roblox account and it was a very dangerous situation, asking very specific questions and digging deep. It was a rooming situation and she was able to report this person and possibly my kid was able to save this kid. And so this reporting guideline is great because it protects your kid, but it also empowers them to possibly protect or save another kid, which is huge when you get to encourage your kid that way, and so that's what you did like you took this information and you shared it and you helped your friend be safe.
Speaker 2:Like that makes them feel so good. So this one is twofold and like super important.
Speaker 1:We're empowering our children to you know that red flag alert to tell a safe trust at adult. We hope that's mom or dad and then we can help them solve the problem and walk them through what needs to be done and not only keeps our kids safe, but others safe. I love it. We're all working together here. Okay, so the other one anyone in a swimsuit or less.
Speaker 1:Now, when I first implemented this, I got a little bit of pushback on it. Let me clarify I don't believe false swimsuit pictures are bad. I don't. But when my kids were little, I was just trying to catch pornography and I didn't want to use the word pornography with them when they were little, so I was trying to capture it in a way.
Speaker 1:Now, as your kids get older, you are going to shift. They're not going to report every bathing suit picture to you by fifth or sixth grade they're not. But they should be able to report to you the highly sexualized ones versus you know, we all know those the weird shot camera angle, sexualized bathing suit photos. Right, they're going to be reporting that to you versus every every bathing suit picture. But this is where you start with the littles this catches. Now you're going to get crazy things.
Speaker 1:I remember one time my kid was playing clash of plans and it was just, you know, a little character in a weird outfit, right and and he brought it to me. And again, it's thank you so much for telling me. Don't shame the other person, don't shame whoever they're reporting to you. It's just thank you so much for telling you. I'm so glad that you're guarding your heart and mind about you know, what we want here is like private parts. Body stuff is private, and so those are the conversations that we want to wrap up in this. Anyone in a bathing suit or less.
Speaker 2:And I think this one is so simple and basic and something you can start when they're little. It's great because it garners a lot of conversation as they get older. And so this is when, like Mandy saying, as they get older, it evolves with your kid and in your family, and so they'll kind of start to say, like is this something that I should report and that allows you to create conversation around intent? Like what is this person trying to say? Or they just like I'm having fun with my friends at the pool, or are they trying to be sexy? And so it is a great one for starting small and growing with your kids, because it grows with them, because it, you know it is. It's like we see swimsuits all the time, but they're not always bad. So that conversation of intent gets to be a part of this whole concept as they get a little bit older. But it's good that we can start it when it's small with something like swimsuits.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. The next one is any violent bullying or mean behavior. So if your kid is playing Xbox and some, some person out there that they're playing with is cussing them out, calling them stupid you know, being derogatory we want them to tell us. If somebody is bullying us or someone else online or in person, we want our kid to report that to us. If someone is making violent threats like I'm going to shoot this person or I'm going to finish, we want our kids to report that stuff to us. So again, this catches scary stuff without using scary words, with littles Like that's. The purpose here of what we're trying to do is to filter that.
Speaker 2:I think this one also goes hand in hand with a new word, phrase or idea, because sometimes words feel violent or mean and so I feel like that one is where of my kids you were like this kid said the F word or this kid, you know, talked about this thing that was really mean and even going into issues like about racism and things like that that have grown with my kids. All of that comes under that title there, and so it's been a really big one in our family that when violent bullying or mean behavior, it's caught a lot of things that they've seen and heard at school.
Speaker 1:The other one kissing, dating or marriage. So again, this is we're wanting to catch anything, any kind of sexual content that is coming at our littles that they're curious about, so that we can speak into it. It may be a four plus app, that where multiple teddy bears can get married. You know, you've got two men, one women, whatever it is. Or you've got two teddy bears having sex on a four plus app, like we see that sexual content in Roblox where characters can have sex. So any kind of anything that pops up again online or in a conversation at school about kissing, dating, marriage. We're using this phrase when they're little. We're not using words like sex until they get a little bit older elementary school, right. But this is where we start to catch that filter stuff and then we can start to plant seeds age appropriate seeds as they bring us stuff. And again, all of these conversations are going to get more detailed as they get older. Right, they can handle more as they get older. But this is our starting point.
Speaker 2:Well, and this one too, you know, in Mandy's start my kids were younger and so it was less frequent, I think when her kids were young and then, as my kids started to grow up and watch TV, it was like all the programs that I had approved that were good for them to watch, like cartoons for little kids, had something on there that I wanted to be able to speak into something unfamiliar and new or something that we didn't necessarily think was okay. That seemed to be happening on every show that they watched or every app that they played, and so this one really became important because I wanted to be able to speak into them and talk about what was important to us and not have the world tell them what was normal, and so this one is super important on a lot of different levels as they grow up, as Mandy said.
Speaker 1:And I think, too, this one, as I implemented all of these. But I think you know, we are always worried about what our kids are being exposed to, right, and we want to shelter, shelter, shelter when they're little and we can when they're little, but as they get into the world and as they have conversations at school or at church or whatever, they're being exposed to things and it almost makes you crazy to try and protect it all, like protect their innocence. I don't want to talk about that yet, and this was an easy way for me to kind of get into their mind about what they were hearing at young ages and then be able to speak into it, and that's really the purpose behind it. So these top five that we just covered, those are the ones that I implemented. I mean, they're just tried and true. The new one we've added is because of the shift in the conversation about gender, and again we're not saying, we're not coming out saying everything is awful and horrible. That's not what the purpose of this is. The purpose is I was watching this YouTuber. They said something about not being comfortable in their own skin. Mom, what does this mean? Can we talk about this? So it is a create a way to create open communication in your home about these very adult topics.
Speaker 1:So we added this one just to catch. It's very general. Again, we want it to be very simple for these littles. But just a red flag alert to go off in somebody's brain, in your kid's brain, that, oh my gosh, they're a boy, they want to be a girl. There's some, there's some that feels weird to me. What is that? I'm curious about that. And so it's a red flag alert. I need to go talk to mom because I'm curious about this. What is this? And then parents, you know, we always say it's your family, your choice, how you want to handle these issues in your home. But what we just want is we want you, as the parent, to be able to speak into it and not some stranger on the Internet. That's our goal here, and so that's why we added that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all of these. At the end of the day, that's the purpose, you know. The purpose is for you to, either on your own or with your spouse, to be able to look through these and think how do we want to implement this in our home? What does that look like? And then getting on the same page and communicating it to your kids so that they know they have a safe place to ask, be curious, wonder, and you're not going to brush it under the rug, you're going to address them head on with honest conversation that they can depend on. Like that's the bottom line. And these are just touch points for them, red flag alerts that they can keep in their brain so that it just triggers them when something happens in one of these categories.
Speaker 2:Like, I got to go talk to my parents and I think most of us can say we didn't have that as kids growing up. It's not that our parents didn't want to do that, they just didn't know. That was just not a thing. And so we want to change that and we want to be that safe place for our kids and this is a great starting point for any family. No matter how you implement it. The bottom line is to implement it. Let your kids know these are the things you want to hear about and I'll answer any question. You can ask me anything, you can say anything, and I'm not going to lose my mind and we'll figure it out together.
Speaker 1:And I think it's really important when you're teaching these to your kids is that it's a calm conversation, because we don't want them to feel like you know. We don't want them to feel triggered in a sense of oh my gosh, this is a bad conversation that's happening right now and then get have anxiety. We don't want to create anything like that. This is just. Hey, I'm helping you process what you're seeing and hearing, because all this is so if you're curious, if you hear these things, just come home and ask me and we'll have a calm conversation. Now, parents, sometimes your kids, are going to ask you something. I mean, I remember hearing my young kids say the F word one time and I spent out my chicken at the dinner table, right, and you're just shocked that, oh my gosh, they heard this at such a young age. This is where you have to practice the next talk core principle of avoid crazy parent mode, because if you implement these and they come home and you overreact every time and scream and yell about how awful the world is, they're not going to keep reporting to you. So I'm telling you this because if you implement this, they're going to start slowly telling you things. They're going to test you out. Kids do that to make sure that you're an okay, safe person, and you have to prove that you're going to be calm and logical. You're not going to be judgmental, you're not going to be mean If a kid says something inappropriate on the playground, you're not going to be like don't hang out with that kid anymore.
Speaker 1:No, it is. Oh honey, there's so much misinformation. I feel bad for that kid. Let's talk about what it means to us as a family. So we're not judging, we're not shaming. It is just a calm, logical conversation. I think that's very, very important. We're calling these red flag alerts, but we don't want to raise emotion with it. It's just a click in the kid's brain. I got to go tell mom and dad.
Speaker 2:And the last thing I want to say about that man, one thing I've had to shift to is when my kid like when my kid comes home and says something awful, and I want to be crazy and inside my heart is like breaking to quickly shift to oh my gosh, I'm so glad they're asking me because if they didn't, I can't even imagine what they're hearing from their friends or from Google or being exposed to If they go Google that thing they just asked me.
Speaker 2:The things that they'll see are so much worse than that one word or that one concept. I have trained myself now to go from like oh to yes, thank you for asking me, and I'm so thankful that my kid is believing in me, to be honest with them, and that they continue to come back and come back because I've created that safe place for them, and so I think that's very, very important to grasp onto. Is that shift from like crazy parent mode on the inside it's okay, it's going to happen, but then okay, I'm also so thankful. I mean, man, this just saved my kid from so much more that they could have been exposed to, and so I think that's something we can hold on to, that we get to speak into these crazy things that our kids might bring to us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Shift your thinking On the bottom of this downloadable too. We just have one more thing that we wanted to put on here, because our hope is maybe, if you have littles, you can put this on your fridge and it's just a reminder, a daily reminder of okay, these are kind of our things that you need to report to us. These are the things that I want a red flag to go off in your brain to tell me about. But this no secrets one is really important too. It's like an. You know we do a whole separate podcast on this. We have a whole separate talking point at events about secrets and grooming and online manipulation and all of that, but we wanted to put it on here. This is a core principle that you just need to be instilling in your kid is no secrets. We see it all the time with trafficking, online grooming. It starts out as little secrets. It may just be like we're red today and take a picture and DM me and it's our little secret, like don't tell anybody else what the groomers doing there is creating a world where it's you, it's him and your kid against the world and he does it with little secrets like that. We've seen it over and over again in trafficking cases and in really serious situations, and so we just want to have no secrets in our family. You'll get silly stuff, like Kim said. You will get like hey, grandma gave me eight popsicles for breakfast and told me not to tell my parents. Okay, so we're going to have a conversation with the grandparents. You can spoil your grandkids you've earned that right but please don't tell them to ask to keep a secret from me, because we live in a world where strangers are coming into our homes through their devices. The strangers are in our homes playing with my kid on Roblox, and so what I'm trying to do is set up an environment where we don't keep any secrets. That way, they can tell me if anybody online or in person is asking them to keep a secret, and it's a way to keep them safe. So you're bringing the grandparents in to the conversation. They're part of the solution. You can help keep your grandkids safe. So this is a community conversation that we need to be having in schools and churches and everywhere about like we don't diminish even little secrets and we have to like I've messed this up.
Speaker 1:I remember one time I had a kid over in a long time ago and I was like writing my book about this, right? And I remember the girl wanted sugar candy and I said, well, as long as you don't tell your mom, and that's my best friend, right? So I had to stop. I like stopped in my pantry and I was like, oh my gosh, what did I just do? Because it's like innocent. And so I told her. I was like I didn't mean that we never not keep secrets from your mom. And then I texted the mom and I was like, can you follow up with this conversation later? Because I messed this up Like I'm literally writing a book about this, but I still did it because it just seems so innocent but groomers are taking advantage of that and so we need to take note of that and then educate our kids about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mandy gave my daughter a whole bunch of marshmallows. I'll just so on this one. It has really two things. One, when you listen to the podcast specifically about this, you're gonna learn the difference between secrets and surprises, which is super important, especially with kids because of things like birthday parties and special presents at Christmas, and so I definitely would encourage you to listen to that podcast because that's an important distinction we need to teach our kids.
Speaker 2:That can be confusing for them, and what I have learned as my kids have gotten older. I'm so thankful for this principle that we instilled when they were young, because when you start getting into the dating years and relationships and it's very easy for there to be this other thought between your kid or someone that they're seeing, that's like, hmm, us against the world or us against the parents if there are secrets, and so it's really important to instill this young because it will grow with your child and allow you to walk with them as they get older and keep that open communication and be able to speak into all the areas of their lives. So this one, I think, is super important in keeping them safe and also keeping your relationship open and being able to speak into different things as they get older.
Speaker 1:So those are the core things we wanted to cover. You guys are gonna get this printable. This is a new thing that we've created. We've never kind of done any, we've never released it like this in a visual format like this, and so you guys are gonna be one of the first ones to get this in your inbox. And that's kind of we wanted to go through those. But we also wanna open it up for questions. You may have questions about these red flag alerts, these reporting guidelines, or you may say my question's totally not related, but I have this question for y'all.
Speaker 1:That is what this time is for, so I kind of wanna open it up. Does anybody wanna go first? I do have some questions that people emailed in that I can start with, but I wanna throw it out to you guys first, because you're here and if you wanna hop in and ask a question, I wanna give you that opportunity. Darby also just said you can use the chat if you're like I don't wanna audibly be recorded. That is a fine option too. Darby can monitor that for us. There's always an awkward silence and I don't wanna jump in before anybody else wants to do it right.
Speaker 2:I will say these guidelines as we were implementing them in our home. It was really cool to see my kids repeat them in other homes, and then parents asked me questions, and so, now that we've created this downloadable, we want you to share it with your friends, because when we're keeping our kids safe, the more that your kids friends are on the same guidelines and on the same page, the safer all our kids are, and so we really encourage you to use this in your own home, and then we're hoping you'll share it with your friends and family as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, is anybody Darby? I can't see, oh, wendy's raising her hand. I do see that, wendy, go on.
Speaker 4:So I just wanted to add I love your red flag alerts, but one thing I do notice for teenagers that I mean it's hard. So you know the way to a teen's heart is basically through their stomach, right. So I we had, I mean I've heard of a situation where it's almost like they buy the teen's trust by giving them free food. Do you know what I mean? So, and they're not saying keep it a secret or anything, but it's like kind of you know, getting favor with them, right. And so I did see that happen at our school and so that's why I kind of even like little things like that.
Speaker 4:It seems very innocent and they're not using the word secret. But it is something for, like, older kids to watch out for, because you know older kids they're smart, a little smarter, you know. They know when things sound weird, right. But especially if someone uses the word secret, right. But I feel like in this really, you know, in this kind of secretive way, they, with giving out free food to kind of buys their trust. So that is something for older kids to be aware of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wendy, thank you for that. I think that's a very important point here and in your language. For older kids it's totally gonna change. You know the core principles are gonna be the same, but you probably aren't gonna use the no secrets language Like we joke about that in my home because it's been around since they were little.
Speaker 1:But now my kids are old enough where they're discerning, like I want them to discern. They're not telling me every little thing. They're 16 and 20 now. Right, I've been doing this for 10 years. So they're trying to figure out like what do I really need to tell mom and what is like I can handle on my own right? So even with now we use word pornography we don't use. I mean, I don't say to my 16 year old tell me about anyone in a swimsuit or less. So your language evolves over time. But even pornography they're talking about pornography at school or whatever. Like I don't. There's so much talk about it, like I don't need to know every conversation unless you're wanting to look at it, unless you did look at it, unless it's on your mind a lot Like I don't need to know all that by the time they get older.
Speaker 1:And I think the same thing is with secrets. So, like what you said, as if you've implemented the no secrets policy for a while. What you wanna do is evolve with your kid. So you're using these examples and things will pop up. So like on Instagram DM, somebody's messaging you and will pay you five bucks for a foot picture, right. So that's a conversation of. That's not necessarily a secret. They didn't phrase it as a secret, but, okay, let's break this down. You've got a stranger contacting you on Instagram and they're paying you for a body picture. So they're trying to get you desensitized to taking pictures and trafficking your body for money. That's what they're trying to do. They're gonna move you. So you're using all these teachable moments as they come home and tell you these things through the years to teach them how to discern.
Speaker 1:So it may not be a necessary secret per se, but if you've got an adult buying you foods, spending time with you, and it's like what is what's going on here? Like they should be able to discern that and be like mom, I'm getting a weird vibe, can you? And that's literally what my kids say to me more now than anything, mom, I'm getting a weird vibe. Here's what's happening, what do you think's going on, and a lot of times I'll dig in, I'll see, I'll say, well, can you show me a text message of what you mean? Like I don't understand what you're meaning, and then they'll pull something up. Okay, what do you help me? Help me dissect this. So, again, it's like growing with your kid and teaching them to discern more on their own. Does that help, wendy? It's a you've got to move with your kid. So these guidelines are great for element young, elementary and preschoolers. But these words will change over time and you've got to move with your kid or you're going to be irrelevant.
Speaker 4:Right, I think that's totally true and I'll ask them like has anything seemed off? Yes, and I feel like that helps them too.
Speaker 1:That's really good, yeah. And sometimes they don't pick up on it, but they'll show you a text message and be like I feel weird about this but I don't know why. And then you look at the text message and you're like, oh my gosh, this is why, of course, you're calm, but you just help them learn to discern on their own. It's a process and you're training them up to go out into the world. You know my 20-year-old is at college. Very rarely Am I helping her process a lot now. Every now and then she's processing a lot on her own now, and that's the way it should be. I don't need to know every secret that everybody needs that is telling her to keep at this point, but the big ones. She knows that she feels something's off.
Speaker 2:Well, and I would add to that.
Speaker 2:When my kids were little and we implemented these types of things as they brought things to me, one thing that I found was super helpful was asking them how it made them feel, and so they would say something like oh, it makes me feel yucky or uncomfortable or like they're doing something to me that they shouldn't, they're taking advantage of me, and then we would give a word to that, and I think that's very important when they're young, because something like manipulation is not a word that they know when they're young, but when they start to feel what manipulation is and they're describing it to you and you can say that's actually something called manipulation, then, as they get older, they feel that feeling and they're like oh, that's manipulation, and they can recognize it on their own.
Speaker 2:And so when I was younger, or when they were younger, and I was able to help them get the words attached to their feeling now even my oldest, who's 14, he'll come home and he'll be like. This was happening today. For your example, this person was giving me food the last few days and then they started asking me for things. It really felt like manipulation. I see that those seeds I planted and the words that I helped them to identify with their emotions now help them to realize what's happening in a situation. So I think that's also really good, too, is helping them figure out what they're feeling and how to express it, because sometimes those feelings are overwhelming and they don't know how to say it. They just know something's not right.
Speaker 3:We got a question in the chat. It's kind of related to what you all are talking about, but maybe you have more to add. I think it's just about the red flags in general, but the question says for older kids, what's the fine line between privacy and making them share everything with you? Do you have anything to add with that question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's an age and I think it happens differently for different kids where there's a switch. That happens and you need to start teaching your kid discernment on what to tell you versus reporting everything to you. And the conversation in my home went something like wow, you're maturing, you're getting to be like a little adult, right, you can handle some things on your own, and so you don't have to tell me now about every little word, phrase or idea that pops into your mind. But if there's something that you are, you know, going down a rabbit hole about and you're just like this is just bizarre, this feels weird, like that's something we may need to talk about, right, and so you're teaching them to kind of discern that. The same thing. You know, when we talk about secrecy versus privacy, I automatically go to checking your kid's phone, like that's where my brain goes to with this question. And so, again, when your kid first gets a phone, you are gonna be up all in their business and you are gonna be honest about it. It's not sneaky, this is a new device. Just like when you start driving, I'm gonna be watching you, driving with you, teaching you. You know, we're walking hand in hand while you use this new device.
Speaker 1:But as your kids get older and, yes, when they're younger, you're doing random phone checks, you're checking all the group texts. You know you're doing all of that when they first start, but as they age, if you never have found an issue online, right, and your kids are always talking to you about you know the nudes that are being shared at school and what's happening in this friend group and what's doing that and you have a trustworthy relationship and you've been monitoring their phone and you've never found anything that's alarming, right, and I mean, like big things, like a stranger asking for information, a nude photo, somebody threatening to shoot up the school and your kid not telling you, like, those are big things that need to be reported to you, right, but if you don't find any of those big key component things and you have a trustworthy relationship, you don't check their phone as often, like they've earned a little bit more privacy right Now, if you let we always use a kite analogy if you're letting the kite out and you're giving more freedom, and then all of a sudden, there's a tank in grades. There's attitude. That's a continual thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, all teens have attitude, right, but it's a continual attitude change that your gut is just telling you something's off with my kid right now. You gotta reel it in. You may have to do a phone check and be like what is going on? Like is something going on that they're not talking to me about. So open communication is not a one and done like oh, we've got it figured out, we're talking, I don't have to do anymore. It is a continual ebb and flow learning this thing and growing with your kid and not being too helicoptery when they're 17 or 18, like you're not gonna parent a phone like a 17 year old that you do a 12 year old or a 13 year old. It should be totally different how you're handling secrecy and privacy in all of these conversations.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think too, when you're monitoring their phone, whether it's frequent or not, it's real easy to see things that maybe make you uncomfortable or seem strange but are not necessarily bad. And I always go back to I was a kid once and we had slang words and we did stupid things and we were silly and we had our little things that we did that maybe weren't awesome but weren't necessarily terrible. And I try to live in that space. Like I'll look in the group texts and I'll look in my kids' threads with different friends and sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't know about that, but it's not necessarily horrible or hurtful to someone or something. It's just kind of goofy. You know what I mean and so I do not.
Speaker 2:I don't feel those are things we need to ever call out on our kids. We need to let them figure some of those things out on their own and that's kind of the privacy area, like they get to have their little click words and their funny things that they do and their inside jokes with their friends, and I don't wanna mess that up. Now, if they cross the line and they've done something that's hurtful or harmful, that's where I feel like it's you've crossed that line where you lose some of that privacy, and that's a hard line to walk because it can be uncomfortable sometimes and you think I don't know. And so that's where you know dialing back and thinking okay, is this really hurting anyone or are they just being silly? I think it's super helpful but it's not easy. But I do think it's important to keep the relationship healthy is to not call them out or bring up every little thing that you see that makes you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad Kim said this, so this is an example. Say, you're monitoring your 13 year old boy's group chat right, and we get a podcast on this Teen Boy group chat, because it's hilarious, these Teen Boy group chat.
Speaker 1:But they can also go really sound really bad, really fast, right. And so if in the group chat they're using the S word, the D word, whatever you have to pick your battles, is that worth a big conversation over? I mean, maybe, I don't know. To me I used the call outs of monitoring their phone and finding some four big horrible things like nudes, and we talked on our show about how boys talk about their balls and nuts and all this kind of like sling word, like how far is too far.
Speaker 1:And I think Kim is right, you have to know the line right, like anything about racism. That's a line Like we have to have a conversation about that. That is not OK, that is hurtful and that is awful. But like joking about their body parts, if they're not talking about in a sexual way, right, or in a weird way like taking dick pics or something like that, they're just joking with their slang words Then that's a different situation. And so, learning the line of what to call out, you just can't be so crazy that you're calling every little thing out. They're kids, they're going to say stupid stuff, like all of them do.
Speaker 2:Well, and you don't want to create a situation where they start to transition their behavior and their conversations to in person at school only Because they're like my mom is watching my phone, and so they either use a friend's phone at school or they're doing things at school or talking about things at school, because they know that you're going to call them out on anything that they do, and so they stop talking to you, they stop being who they are on their phone and they live two separate lives, and that is not what you want. You want to know your kid who they are in any situation, and the only way to do that is to create open conversation, one and two, not to go into crazy parent mode over every little thing that they do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, random phone checks, that secrecy, privacy thing. When you do random phone checks and we've got a whole other show on that as well to me that's research. You're doing research and every now and again there's something alarming that you do need to address right away. But most of the time what you're doing is filing away in your head OK, my kid, they're using the S word a lot. They're using that they're cussing more than they need to be. This is a conversation. Probably in a couple of days or if there's a teachable moment, right, maybe we watch a movie and it's a lot of cussing and then I accidentally cuss. That's a conversation and you know from your research that you did on the random phone check OK, my kid is cussing a lot, if that's something that you want to address. So it's just like you're filing things in the back of your mind that are like non-horrible things that don't need to be addressed right away, kind of thing You're doing research.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wendy was just agreeing. She says I agree about teen boy conversations. I feel like dads are a good way to check what is typical boy lingo and what is it appropriate. I grew up with only sisters so I had no idea.
Speaker 2:Word. Me too. I was the only child, so, having two boys first, I would always be like to my husband oh my goodness, is this normal Like? Why are they talking about their balls? You know, it was just a great touch point to be like is this something you did? Is this on the normal spectrum? It's a great tip, for sure.
Speaker 1:And don't get lazy with this or complacent. Be like well, boys will be boys. I hate that phrase so much. That is not OK. It's not an excuse to address some of these things. But you just have to know the line of what is just like fun jokes versus oh my gosh, this is a serious situation. The way they're talking about girls or they're talking about somebody's parts like that's very different, right? We don't want to cross into consent issues or anything like that, so we need to be careful with it. But there's a line of stuff that you just let them joke, right Like the teenagers have jokes, I mean it's OK, not all of them are horrible.
Speaker 5:I was going to add that in Mandy, that you talk about it in your events that make sure your kids know, like you say, make sure they know what to report. I would also say make sure they know what your family deal breaker words are and I think everybody probably has them. But I know with my children there's just like absolutely do not engage in this, do not say it, Do not make sure from a very young age, when they get those phones, that they know the one words or statements that are just not acceptable at your house. And so the same things that they can say and yes, it can get out of hand in those boy group chats and I know you talk about this more in the podcast like really making sure that they're your fundamental reasons in your family of why words can be said or can't be said, like where is it too far?
Speaker 5:And I know there's been some times in my kids' lives where they're like whoa, the group chat has really gotten too far. That's where you want to be. You want to hear about that, not find out about a screenshot or something that has been misconstrued. Discuss those core things that are like this is why you don't say it. This is why it's not allowed. This is how it can get misconstrued, so that they are caught up when it happens Because somebody will push them too far. In those boys, especially the boy ones the girls ones, I feel like, tend to get a little more hurt feelings or catty about situations, but the boy ones just get to where you're like whoa, so like you were talking about things about girls, like not OK, race not OK, make your, whatever your family value deal breaker could be about faith, talking about people's religion, like where is it so that they know this is a time I need to step out of it and be silent or tell an adult or leave it or whatever.
Speaker 1:I think that's really good. I also want to add to that One of our deal breakers has always been the nude photos. I've been instilling that in my kids from day one about nude photos. But I also know, like I mean there's been situations where I know kids who have shared nude photos and those kids are still welcome in my home, they still get loved by me and my kids see that.
Speaker 1:So, even though this is like, hey, this is a deal breaker, like this is not OK, they also see like anybody can be redeemed, anybody can be forgiven. Everybody makes mistakes, you know, and that's not just a push off of you can do it. I mean there's so many consequences with that. It follows you, it's you know. There's legal consequences, like you talk about all of that.
Speaker 1:But I think it's really important too that our kids see us love people who do the non-negotiables or who go to places where we're like this is a deal breaker for me. I think that's really important for our kids to see, because what if they do a deal, a deal breaker, or what if they mess up? We want them to always still come to us, even if they're choosing things we don't like or don't agree with we. I mean, I still want my kid to be able to come to me, even if I've said don't do this. This is, this is. This is not a good situation, this is a deal breaker. I still want them to feel safe with me and not judged and loved unconditionally, and I'm going to walk you through this, like I'm going to. I'm going to walk you through this.
Speaker 2:Really quickly. I just want to add to that another thing. That's huge. That is, it's hard for me to do. I'm just going to be very transparent.
Speaker 2:It's very hard when my kids bring me something that is bad, like it's a deal breaker, it's something very hurtful to them or others, or it's a nude photo or whatever it is, I want to jump in there and call the parent. I want to be like let me fix this. I'm going to call this school. You know, let's make it right, you know, whatever it is, that is my first thought and I've learned over the years I need to step back. I need to be my kids advocate first, and that means being their safe place. And if I do that, then my kid is going to be ostracized because I stepped out without them and I reported, I called, I said something, and then that kid's going to know that it came from my kid. And then they're going to be like well, you're the snitch or you're, you know, the one who made this all go away, like our group chat or whatever it is. They become the bad guy. And then my kid is going to be like I'm not going to tell mom anything any ever again, because it ended up being bad for me, and so I have learned to listen, not going to crazy parent mode and say what do you think we need to do about this? How do you feel about this? Would you like me to do anything? Can we do it together? Would you like to? Would you like me to call the mom? Should we report it to the school? We talk through it, we come up with a plan together it's not me, it's us and we implement that.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it means nothing. Sometimes it means coming up with something that makes my kid feel safe and heard and nothing more. And that's hard sometimes. Now, the hard the line with that is if someone's in danger you know it's, it's something, you know where their life is threatened or they are, you know, suicide, something like that there's. There's no question I'm going to report it. But if it's something that is just an uncomfortable thing, then I follow my kid's lead in that, because the most important thing for me is that my kid keeps coming to me and sharing what they're seeing and hearing, and so that's super important too, that we keep that safe place for our kid and that when we need to take action, it's not us, I mean it's not us alone, it's us with our kid coming up with a plan and then following through. Reporting together, reporting together, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think we had another question in the chat.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, yeah. How do you, when giving the red flags, like when you have little kids, do you just kind of talk about it and stick it on the fridge and then you just keep talking about what's expected to report to you? Or like, how do you keep that conversational life so kids know, like, what needs to be reported? Or how do you bring it up without like sounding helicoptery, I guess?
Speaker 1:Well, I think the first thing, if you've never implemented this and you have littles, right I think the first conversation is and it can be, you know, at dinner or when you're in the car or whatever but just a casual conversation. Don't make it a big lecture type situation, right, you're doing something, you're driving or you're eating together or whatever, and just say you guys, the older you get, the more you are on your iPads or your tablet or whatever, and sometimes bad things pop up, like we live in a world that's kind of crazy sometimes, and I just want you to know, like there are certain things that I would really like to talk about, and so I'd like to, you know, list off a few things and just start with maybe one or two, maybe the any new word, phrase or idea you don't know, cause that catches a lot and you know anyone asking for personal information or the swimsuit or less. You know those three like start there and add to it. Your kid may also say, oh, we probably need to tell you about this too. I mean that's great If they're like oh, this is such a good idea, sally, this is, you know, I'm so like your kids need to be bought in here as to I just don't want your heart and mind to be scarred, right, that's what I don't want you to do. But I know that you love playing this app, or I love that. I know that you love playing your tablet and I just want to keep you safe, so you're introducing it. In a way of my job as a parent is to keep you safe, and this is how you can help me do that, and we'll talk through it. That way, you can still play on your iPad and be okay and be protected and then keep on.
Speaker 1:So, for example, if you're playing a game with them and I encourage you when your kids are little, like, don't just let them play any game by themselves you need to play it with them first. So, as you're playing it, something may pop up. Maybe somebody's hitting somebody and you could say, oh, this would fall under our reporting guideline. They're hitting each other Like that's kind of mean behavior and violent. So this is something that would need to be reported Like. This is one of those red flags that need to be going off in your brain that you need to tell me about this. So you're using examples as you're watching cartoons with them, if something pops up on the screen that you're like man, the red flag should have caught that. Why didn't they ask me? Ask them, say hey, that I think that's a new word, right? You don't know what that means. Is that something that should have in your brain? A red flag should have gone off to be like let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:So just use everyday teachable moments to try and bring this out. The other thing is literally ask your kid have you ever heard a new word, phrase or idea that you don't know? Just ask them, just throw it out. I had a mom do this at an event and she came back seven days later and she was like he was in eighth grade. I mean, he was eight years old, he was in second grade. I didn't think he knew anything and he had all this stuff on in his little heart and mind that he was just waiting to know about. And she asked this question and out it came, and so they had all these beautiful conversations. So just throw it out there and in any time you get feedback, praise them Like if they are starting conversation with you. Honey, thank you so much for trusting me with this. I feel so honored that we can talk about this. That way, it encourages and empowers them to keep doing it. You just have to keep praising, praising all the time that they're doing it.
Speaker 2:We did a show about the open communication cycle and that we noticed in our own homes where when you start to implement these, at first it's slow because they're still processing it. My oldest is 14, when we implemented these he was four and then I had a two year old and then one that wasn't even born yet. So this has been their whole life and the same thing happened with all three. At first it was kind of slow and it was a lot of me giving them examples and just throwing it out there randomly and then it clicks and then it's like a waterfall for many families where they realize, oh, I really can't ask mom anything or dad anything I really can share what has happened. And then they start sharing a lot of things and reporting all the things and over reporting. And that's the space where it's really important not to get frustrated because sometimes it can be like oh my gosh well, they ever stopped talking.
Speaker 2:They're telling me all the things, but encourage them through that phase, because that sets them up for when they're in middle school and high school of knowing like they truly can trust you with all the things they're carrying, and so it's super important to just continue to dig in there, having the conversations circling back, with them asking, hey, what about? I ask it every day, still in different ways. We change it up and they're older now, but every day I'm still kind of going back to these foundational principles in some way or another and we still have these conversations, and so it's just a matter of starting and then continually reassuring them that this is exactly what I want you to do.
Speaker 1:Anything else, darby, that you wanna read or any other questions. I do wanna encourage you guys if you're on the show and you've called in and you're like I don't wanna ask my question, I feel like it's emailless, like that's an easy way to get in touch with us we wanna hear from you. Like our organization is about supporting parents. We don't want you to feel alone. Parenting technology has blindsided all of us and we're all trying to figure it out and we're constantly learning here at Next Talk too. So also we want your feedback. Email us your feedback what you liked, what you didn't like, what makes sense, what doesn't make sense. We love that. Just be nice. We say don't cuss us out, but we want your feedback, right, so you can email us at admin at nexttalkorg or you can go to our website. There's forms you can fill out on the podcast page. However you wanna contact us, you can DM us on social media, whatever, but we would love to hear from you and I really wanna just say thank you for taking time to join us today.
Speaker 2:And we wanna hear how it's going in your home. Absolutely, like Mandy said, if you think after the fact, if you think of a question that has nothing to do with this but it's something new in your house, so get ahold of us. We wanna walk through that with you and we wanna hear your wins, like if you're implementing some of these and you're like, oh my goodness, it really works. We wanna hear about it and we will be praying for you. We love that we get to walk through all of this with you.
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