Talking to Kids about 16yo's Suicide from Sextortion

Our podcast interview of Brian Montgomery detailing the sextortion scheme that ended with his son taking his life, brought a lot of emotions to the surface for most parents. Many parents have told us they don't know how to talk with their kids about this story. Especially those with younger children. This podcast gives practical tips that will help you do just that.

Relevant Shows
-16 Year Old’s Suicide from Sextortion. How do we protect our kids?
-Talking to your Kid about Grooming
-Online Manipulation
-Pornography
-Parent Question: This world is so sexualized. How do I approach these conversations with my son?
-Masturbation

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to the Next Talk Podcast, where we share real stories and practical advice for parenting the digital world.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

We're your hosts, Mandy and Kim. Mandy is an award-winning author and the founder of Next Talk, and I'm the director of Next Talk, a nonprofit organization created to strengthen families through open communication. You can check out all of our resources at NextTalk.org.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

We're wives, moms, and friends tackling culturally relevant topics from a Christian perspective. We're sharing what we've learned and where we've failed. We're so glad you're here for this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

So last week, March 29th, we released a show called 16-year-olds Suicide from Sextortion: How do we protect our kids? And Mandy and I um had the honor of interviewing Brian Montgomery, the father of the 16-year-old. And I have to tell you, his bravery and his transparency and his willingness to share Walker's story was incredible. Um, it made a huge impact on Mandy and I. And we knew we needed to release the show right away because of what he shared and the advice and encouragement that he shared. Every parent needed to hear it. And it it was something that we wanted the world to know. And so we're so very thankful that he was willing to do that. And in the aftermath of releasing that show and so many people hearing it, Mandy and I have been approached over and over everywhere we go, and through text messages and emails and on social media with questions and um ideas and how do we talk to our young kids? And that's kind of what we want to address on today's show.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, and with all these messages and calls and stuff that we've gotten, you know, one of the sweet things that I've that I've been reminded of is our community here because they've also been saying, I'm praying for Brian and Courtney, what an amazing dad. He was so well spoken. I know we will never forget the strength that he showed in that moment. And it was very much strength from the Lord. And we could feel that when we recorded it, and you can hear that as you listen to him talk about Walker and his story. Um, for those of you who did not hear the podcast, just a brief summary of what happened. Walker went to bed happy one night. They had prayed as a family. They were a Christian family. He was an athlete, well loved by his teachers and his friends, and he loved hunting and football, right? A great great kid, overall kid. And he went to bed happy one night. But during the night, there was an Instagram scheme that resulted in a sexual online encounter, and he was recorded, and then they were demanding money to not release that video to the people on his Instagram friends list. So his friends, his mom, and um, in the middle of the night, he took his own life. We have seen a lot of sex tortion cases. We've worked in this space for years, we've never seen one quite like this that escalated within a couple of hours. And so that's why we felt like it was very like an emergency situation, like we need to get this information out to parents. And we've since heard of people who have had the same thing happen to them. And so it is happening. Our kids are being preyed upon through this Instagram scheme and many others. This is one example, but we wanted to highlight it for you. So if you haven't listened to the podcast, I encourage you to go listen to it because I am not doing the story justice. Hearing it from the dad is a whole nother level of understanding what really happened here in the situation. And so I really encourage you to listen to the podcast if you have not.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

So if you haven't listened yet and you go and and you listen to Brian tell his story, or if you did listen and now you're thinking to yourself, oh my gosh, this is a really scary story. Maybe this is the first time you're hearing something like this, or trying to process how to deal with it yourself as a parent, because that can be scary. We're just trying to keep our kids safe and the world is moving so fast, and all these schemes and things online are happening and they keep changing, that can feel overwhelming. And so you may be thinking, how do I talk about this? Like, what do I do? And you might be immobilized with fear, and that is not the space that we want you to be in. Parenting this moment out of fear is not a good idea. We want to move past the fear and equip our kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Fear and being overwhelmed and being scared, those are all real feelings, and we need to process them with our spouse, with our best friend, you know, the anger that that we have and the bitterness that our kids have to grow up in a world like this, that we even have to approach this, it's infuriating at times. And so, if that's the space that you are, I know when my kids started being exposed to things that I had to process that first. What we don't want to do is bury our heads in the sand or sweep it under the rug and say that won't happen to my kid. I think Brian did an excellent job on the on the show of saying that could be any of our kids. Yeah, kids are impulsive. And I think that's what struck a chord too with it. I think that's why so many people have listened, is because we can all see our own kids in Walker. That makes it very real and scary. But Kim is right. You can feel overwhelmed and you can be scared and you can be mad even. But you got to process those emotions with your spouse or your friend because we have to move past that. If we get stuck there, we are never gonna have the conversations with our kids. And that's what actually protects them in situations like this. So, this is the whole mission of Next Talk, right? To create open communication in families around everything. And so when we say move towards the solution, get out of your fear, it's dig into the conversations. And so today on the show, we really wanted to dig into what this looks like on a practical level and give you some ideas of how to have this conversation with your kids.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah, listen to the podcast, um, have your spouse listen, and you may immediately be ready to have these conversations with your kids, especially if they're older. You know, my oldest is 13, and I was able to walk him through the story and talk about here are the dangers, here's what Mr. Bryan said, um, here are some different things that I want to make sure you know based on this experience. But I also have younger kids. And so I have heard from, you know, fellow parents that my kids go to school with all the way down to younger kids. You know, I also have a third grader saying, Well, how do we approach this topic without overexposing our kids? Like we we want to keep them safe and equip them, but we don't want to make them scared. And I love that. And I love that I really feel like the Holy Spirit shared some things with my heart in that moment because my fifth grader jumped in the car that day and I was just overcome with emotions from talking with Brian Montgomery and wanting to protect my kid. And there's that space there where you want to just kind of tell them everything and say all the things. But then as a parent, you realize it's also my job to guard their heart and their mind. And so, what's that balance look like? And in that moment, I told my kid, I want you to imagine the worst thing that you could ever do. And you don't have to say it out loud. Just think, what's something terrible that you wouldn't want mom and dad to know? Your friends, your teachers, all the people you care about at church, in our community. Think of that thing. And he was like, Okay. And then I said, How does that make you feel? And he's like, scared, nervous, like I'm alone. And that's exactly kind of where I wanted him to go to this place. And I said, Listen, there's gonna be times in your life when you mess up. And sometimes it's gonna be really bad. Like mom and dad made horrible mistakes that were embarrassing and that felt like the end of the world. And that's gonna happen. You're gonna do things that are embarrassing, and that, but here's what I need you to know you might be lying in bed thinking about this thing that you've done, and you feel all alone, you feel like it's hopeless and helpless. And I said, anytime you feel those feelings, I want that to be a red flag alert to your brain. I need to go find mom. Whether it's coming downstairs and waking me up, if I'm not home and you need to call me or text me or whatever it is, or dad, come and get us. And whatever it is on the planet, we will figure it out together. You are never alone in this. And I will love you the same and I will not reject you because of a decision you've made. And he said, Okay, okay, mom, I got that. I got it. And that was kind of my setup for letting him know like no matter how bad it is, I didn't have to tell him Walker's story. I didn't have to tell him about pornography. I didn't have to tell him about sex tortion to explain to him that no matter how bad his mistake is, we'll figure it out together.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

I love that you are giving parents of young kids a conversation starter here because I think their big concern is well, I don't want to overexpose my kid and bring up all these topics we haven't covered yet. So this is a great way to even engage your elementary age kids in a way that you're telling them, I'm gonna love you the same, I'm gonna help you through anything. I'm the place where you process, I'm the safe place, no matter what, no matter how embarrassing it is, no matter how badly you've screwed up, I'll help you figure this out. You know, one of the things that I loved about the show is when Brian said at the end, and we were telling him, you know, this is one of the talking points, maybe we need to tell our kids this. And I loved what he said because he said, you know, I feel like Walker knew we would love him the same. I can't remember his exact words, I'm summarizing, but I think he was more afraid of his friends and walking into school and the jokes and probably that would turn into bullying. You know, all of that is what he believes that Walker was worried about. And so with my older kids, you know, I've been saying I love you the same for years. So I mean, that's been a talking point in our home since we started on this journey. But for me, I wanted to go an extra level because of what Brian said. And so I said, listen, if you do something super embarrassing and you don't want to go back to your school, you don't have to. Like we can find another school, there's other school options. There's all you're never trapped in that school. If we need to move and start over, like we will, whatever we need to do, right? Because with my older kids, you know, I I told them all of Walker's story, so including the suicide and all of it. And so they knew every bit of it. And I told, I looked at my teenager and I said, nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing is worth your life. I have seen God redeem, restore all kinds of individuals. And then I brought up this one porn star that I follow on Instagram who used to be a porn star and now he's a like a preacher. Like he fought, you know, like anybody can be redeemed, restore. I mean, that's why Jesus died for us. If you find yourself in a situation where you do make an impulsive kid decision and you're like, uh oh, this was not good. Let's talk about that. And so again, it's these conversations and these moments when you hear a story like this where you can really dig in and remind your kids, I'm your safe place. I am here to help you process and figure some things out.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

One of the ways we approach this with that talking point was with our littles, also, you know, fifth grade and third grader. And I think it was really powerful actually to hear it from my husband. Um, because I think sometimes he stresses more about things like our house and our finances. Um, and they know that. And so for him to look them in the eyes and say, I will sell this house tomorrow and move us across the country if that's what I need to do to protect your little heart. They were like, Really? And I think it just made this huge impact on them. Like they needed to hear that, that we will move the mountains to help them. And we don't mean this in a flippant way. We've spoken about this on other shows. Not like they come home and they've had a hard day and you're like, we're moving. That's not what we mean. We're talking about situations where something monumental happens because they've made a really bad choice and it's impacting their day-to-day in a huge way. I don't care about going back to the same school. We'll do whatever we need to do. And just reiterating that to your kid in conversation is so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

I think sometimes the kids just need to hear it. And I think in reality, once they would speak the secret out loud, there wouldn't be a need to move because you would they would the shame would be gone. And and Brian spoke into that on the podcast. He said, the shame of the sin is in the secret. That's a quote that he gave. And I think it was one of the most powerful things that he said on the show. Because it's almost like once the kid feels like you get the kid over the hump of actually being able to speak it out loud, mom, I did this. I cannot believe it. Oh my gosh. It's almost like the shame is lifted somehow. Yes, there still may be consequences. There's still gonna be a fire, probably, to walk through. There's still gonna be stuff to deal with. But the power of carrying that secret around, I think is what leads us, a lot of us, to go to these really dark places of depression and suicide. But like Brian said on the show, he didn't get that opportunity to even notice something different in his son because it escalated so quickly. The intensity of this extortion was so intense that night, the pressure they were putting on this little 16-year-old heart and mind, like I just can't imagine it. And so being able to get a glimpse of that and understand it because of the, because dad shared that with us, I think it it's created so much conversation. I know the other day I was checking our social media post and people were just commenting, saying, We talked about this at dinner, like my my my husband's upstairs right now talking to our sons. And every time I would see a post about that, like a comment, I would just stop and pray. And I would say, Lord, thank you for using Walker's life to change another life. Because even if it doesn't like stop a skiing, it started a dialogue in that home that may not have been there before, and that will change a life.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I was approached by a coach and I actually received another message from a coach, and it made me realize that's another very valuable voice, especially for our teen athletes. Um, if you are listening to this and you are some type of coach or teacher, and you have the opportunity to speak into your kids, we never want to say, hey, come to me instead of your parents, obviously. But if a kid comes to you with a story like this or a concern or a fear and they are speaking to you as a safe place, this is an opportunity to help save them. And I would even say, before anything happens, if you have a chance to talk to these kids that look up to you, that regard you, that have respect for you, and you can say, hey, listen, turn to the athlete on your left and the athlete on your right and say, Hey, we all mess up. And it's okay. You know, we're not going to tease each other, we're not gonna bully each other, and just start that dialogue and remind them that if they need help, that you are there for them no matter what, it's just another layer beyond mom and dad and family of protection for these kids. And you have such influence over them. So please, coaches, I encourage you to listen to the show too and to speak that into the kids.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

It takes all of us, and and that talking point right there goes straight to what Brian said is that I think I think Walker was afraid of walking into school and and facing his friends. And so the more prevention we can do, all of us in our community, the better.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Walker's life and his experience is saving kids. And, you know, it's one of those things that because we're able to get this story out, there are parents, maybe you've heard it before, maybe you know, a distant story you've read, but it's never quite hit home the way that this has. And you being able to explain this to your kid also plants in their head, like, if I do something like this, mom knows it already exists. Dad knows that this is a thing, and I'm not shocking them. You know, I'm not ruining our life as a family. I'm not bringing shame down on our family. I'm struggling with this thing. Let's bring it into the light. And so, like you said, Mandy, every text, every post, every listen to the podcast, I'm saying, thank you, Lord, that Walker has yet again possibly created another conversation or saved a life.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

You know, about the shame and bringing it into the light, you know, one of the things that we've talked a lot about over the years at Next Talk is on a lesser scale, you know, if your kids are watching pornography, that they're able to confide in you and say, this is my struggle. Like I'm I'm watching this and I, you know, my friend showed me and now I can't stop. And can you help me kind of thing? Creating that kind of environment in your home is just so critical. I loved Brian. I didn't know he was going to bring this up in the story, but he started talking about pornography on the podcast and how he, again, I'm gonna summarize you have to go listen to his exact words. But basically, he was saying it's desensitized our kids to sexual stuff and sexual encounters like this because they're used to seeing it because it's so prevalent everywhere. And we've always said from the beginning, pornography is one of the biggest things that we get contacted about. You know, my five-year-old was at a neighbor's house and they Googled this and porn popped up and then they watched it. Like we hear these stories all day long. And so we really want you to dive into this pornography conversation, and it can start as simple as there's a great book on the market called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, and it's for preschoolers, and there's a junior one for preschoolers, and then there's one for elementary age. Author's name is Kristen Jensen. We get no money, we get no money for recommending this. It's just a great resource to start this conversation in your home. We also have several shows that we would love for you to go listen to because it will help you create good conversations in the space. We're gonna link them, but there's a pornography show. Um, there's one that we did. It's called The World Is So Sexualized. How do I talk to my son? So that is a really good show that talks about this desensitization that we're seeing that Brian spoke on. And there's also a show about talking to kids about sex, and then about some of the other topics that may come up as you're talking about Walker and his story with your kids. We also have an online manipulation show, a talking to kids about grooming show, and then a masturbation show as well. Because some of these topics may stem from the story, and we want you to be ready to tackle these issues. Um, one of the things that I will say, you know, you know, Walker's story is very unique in the time span that it happened and the video component also. But your kids need to be aware of a lot of things online grooming that's happening. Uh, with our daughters, one thing that I see in particular is people reaching out wanting to be a sugar daddy and people reaching out wanting foot photos. And I know that sounds so weird, but they will pay your teenage daughter for foot photos and it almost desensitizes them, and then they'll start asking for other body parts. You see where this is going. It's almost like a desensitization in the grooming space. And so we tackle some of these issues on these shows, and we can't go into all of it today, but these shows are very important in helping you have these practical conversations with your kids. I guess what we're saying here is we don't want this to be a one and done. We don't want you to share Walker's story and then never talk about any of this again, because that's not how open communication works. You share a story and then you build upon it. So you continue to have this dialogue. And as your kids get older, the details will get more specific because they can, their little hearts and minds can handle a little bit more. We want this to be a launching pad for open communication in your home. If this is the first time you've had a real conversation about a story like this with your kids, we want it to be a launching pad.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And you know, we we started out sharing some things about practical ways to deal with these tough conversations with your younger kids. And yes, they will grow and change as your kids get older. But one thing that never changes that is like the foundation of next talk, that we always come back to. And I hear parents say sometimes, yes, I told them that, meaning one time. This is something that I encourage you, and that I have made a part of my just my dialogue with my kids every couple of days to remind them you are their safe place and that we can bring things into the light. Like they need to know that over and over again and encourage them, you know, whether it's pornography, whether it's lying, whatever. It is, whatever they're struggling with, that they can come to you and you'll figure it out together. You'll help them with accountability. You'll help them, you know, to protect their heart and mind, that you'll walk through it and discuss it and find options and ways to make it better. Whatever needs to happen, I'm your safe place. And don't let that be a one-time thing that you say. Weave it into the conversations so that they know that as the things get hard in their life, they can always come back to you. Even when they leave your home, even when they become a young adult. I still know mom and dad are my safe place.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

And as you, as you dig into these conversations, your kid may say something alarming to you that you're like, what? I didn't even know they were thinking about that or knew about that or whatever. Like we always say, avoid crazy parent mode. Be real careful in how you react to information they may give you. So it's always, oh, thank you so much for telling me that. I'm so glad you trusted me with that. Let's talk about it, kind of thing. And if you don't know how to respond to their questions in age-appropriate terms right then, say, can I have a minute to think about this? I want to give you an age-appropriate answer. I want to give you the information, but just give me a minute to think about it. But always tell them, like, don't Google it because Googling, you're going to get wrong information. You're going to see videos that your heart and mind are not ready for yet. And so my job as a parent is to protect you from that. So as you're pressing into the story and you're diving into these conversations, practice that remaining calm, whatever they may tell you, or whatever they may confide in you. I mean, this may result in one of your kids saying to you, look, I've been watching porn and I feel horrible about it. Like you have to be prepared for those moments. That's how you actually create the safe space, you know, because you like I'm like you, Kim, weave it in and say it, but you also have to prove it. You also have to, your actions have to line up that you're actually going to love them the same and that you're actually going to help them walk them through it, and that you're actually not going to shame them. You mean what you say. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I also wanted to speak into what you said, Kim. Um, you know, I've been having these conversations with my 15-year-old son for years. We started this when he was in kindergarten because I missed it with my older kid. And so with him, I started very young. The Holy Spirit welled up in me of this is a great reminder of everything we've talked about over the years. And so we did the interview, and the very next day on the way to school, I shared the story about Walker with my 15-year-old son before the show had aired. And then after the show had aired and I was just flooded and inundated with conversation, we brought it up at dinner one night again. Um, and I can do that because I don't have littles in the house anymore, you know? So so it was, it was me, my son, and my husband. And and Kim, I will echo what you said. I think it meant a lot to hear my husband say, dude, we'll help you with whatever. Like, don't ever be afraid to come to us with anything. Like, if we have to sell the house, this is just a house. It's no big deal. We have to change school districts, whatever. And I think that it meant something. Like I'm saying that all the time to him, but I do think it meant something to hear dad say that as well. And so we brought it into the conversation at dinner one night. So don't feel like, oh, I'm an ex talk family. We have open communication. My kid would never fall prey to this. Like, please don't fall into that trap. Don't be afraid. And those are real feelings, and you can process them, but move past it and then create some really good dialogue with your kids about this. There's so many topics that you can cover in this one story. And what an honor that we can tribute more open communication to Walker and show that his life is actually changing lives. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. Thank you so much for joining us, listening, and sharing our podcast. Because of you, this show is in the top 5% of over 2.9 million podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

We have lots of resources for you, from counseling to live events. Or if you have a show idea or a question for our team, visit our website at next talk.org. We'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

At Next Talk, we're more than cyberparenting. It's conversations to connect.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional or to diagnose, treat, or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological, or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.